[cleric]

Raoul, on 13 March 2012 - 05:21 AM, said:

perhaps, but at least i'm keeping my voice down to a mediocre website forum

more proof that you know exactly what you're talking about. thnx.

[Gr3g3]

I fell in love with Adore and Machina I/II

[CoolAsIceCream]

the thread title says swsx.
that's not correct.
south by southwest. sxsw. it's not that hard.

[breathesgelatin]

For everyone who's asking about video of the Brian Solis panel, my understanding is that all SXSWi panels are taped and put on the internet a few weeks after. I'm guessing they restrict attendees from taping it themselves, but feel free to check YouTube for some audience-sourced video because I'm not totally sure about that.

It sounds like he really didn't talk much about Oceania at all. He hints that he has some kind of comprehensive visual plan for the release of Oceania, and he definitely mentions that in the Google Play interview. I don't find anything Billy said to be that surprising, crazy, or offensive at all, but I do get the sense that the panel with Solis went a bit off the rails - as in, they didn't stick to the talking points and didn't cover everything they wanted to in the time allotted.

I'll be curious to see what happens with this visual part of Oceania. I hate to admit it, but I'm pretty skeptical that he's got anything super amazing up his sleeve. But maybe January-June has given him enough time to get something amazing together. I don't know. I could see it going either way.

I really admire Bjork and what she attempted to do with Biophilia; but I worry she's set the standard pretty high for Billy - anything he does will (and should) be compared to her attempt.

[Sophie]

breathesgelatin, on 13 March 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

I really admire Bjork and what she attempted to do with Biophilia; but I worry she's set the standard pretty high for Billy - anything he does will (and should) be compared to her attempt.

What do you mean?
Do the words "Bjork" and "Oceania" put together on a concept release remind you of something?.... ;)/>
http://i42.tinypic.com/357rszc.jpg

[ShamanO]

seeing the clip/video that was posted was a cool idea, BUT it seemed to fall short of a good visual. Perhaps IF Billy were to do that it would tell a story of some sort with the art along with the music?

[MoonPI]

ShamanO, on 12 March 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

NO it is nowhere near perfume commercial cheese

:rofl:/>

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=EQ8ELRpIttw

I had no clue this existed until I went on to youtube and looked up perfume commercials

OMG NO!!! Billy will never do this, that is WAY cheesy LOL

@Raoul..Billy did not seem like he was trying to push any words of wisdom into anything he was saying.. IT WAS JUST HIS OPINION...that is how I took it anyway...and he is RIGHT there is something terribly wrong with the music industry as of late..it seems more about image than about the music ..it has become a business and less about bands sitting around jamming and creating something real..and didn't he allude to not knowing exactly what has gone wrong??? I think he is just putting thoughts out there..There is a big difference.. and you can't compare any of the bands of now to the bands of old...Coldplay will NEVER be a Led Zepplin, or a Stones, or Queen etc. something has been lost..

[ShamanO]

amen MoonPi :cheers:/>

[Fernando]

breathesgelatin, on 13 March 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

I really admire Bjork and what she attempted to do with Biophilia; but I worry she's set the standard pretty high for Billy - anything he does will (and should) be compared to her attempt.

http://www.forgotten-child.blogger.com.br/medullatfe.jpg

[breathesgelatin]

Fernando, on 13 March 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

http://www.forgotten-child.blogger.com.br/medullatfe.jpg

Wow Fernando, that is a creepy image.

[Fernando]

That's your fault! :lick:/>

[ShamanO]

:spew:/>

[Simon Belmont]

RottingApples, on 13 March 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Raoul absolutely hit the nail on the head, in every point he made.

Cheers to you, sir. :cheers:/>

Yeah, Raoul absolutely nailed it.

I'll admit Billy did make some good points in the Google Play interview about the industry, but a huge part of the problem does fall on the artists as well. Zeitgeist and TBK are full of completely soulless songs, and it was because Billy was too concerned with the format and marketing surrounding that material, and put hardly any thought or emotion into what he was doing. With Zeitgeist he purposely made this big overproduced mediocre radio rock sound because he thought that was what we wanted. Did any of us WANT Adore? We were all pissed when Jimmy was fired, and worried when they were making an album with a drum machine, and it's not for everyone, but I for one consider Adore my favorite album now, as skeptical as I was at the time. He did what he felt, rather than trying to please the fans, and that is what he has lost. Then onto TBK...again, only this time he wasn't trying to please the fans, I get the impression he was just trying to pay tribute to Sky by temporarily turning SP into a shitty 60s garage rock imitation, spouting out-of-place 60s expressions in the lyrics to those songs, and writing about things you know didn't mean shit to him, and it shows when you hear how bored he sounds singing them.

Rock is dead because of artists who don't give a fuck, and who make albums for all the wrong reasons. There are still bands that have a decent following while producing honest, heartfelt music. They aren't the biggest bands in the world, but there are still tens of thousands of people who love everything they do, and they love it because it is real, and it makes them feel something, not just because it is what they are supposed to like.

It starts with the artist, and it isn't going to happen overnight, it just doesn't work that way. If Zeitgeist came out and was the amazing album we all hoped it would be, we wouldn't be having this conversation. There was enough attention on the SP reunion for that album to be huge, and to make SP huge again in a matter of weeks, but no, it flopped, not because the industry sucked, not because no one cared about SP anymore, but because the album had no feeling to it, and was altogether a massive disappointment. Of course after that, most people weren't interested in hearing TBK, and they shouldn't have been, because it was basically the complete polar opposite of ZG, just bad in a whole different way. If an album comes out that reaches a few thousand people, and that small number is really into it, it will spread, the same way it always has, by word of mouth, file-sharing, etc...and those few thousand will lead to a few thousand more, and so on. It might never become the biggest album of all time, you aren't going to knock Bieber off the charts right now or anything, but it will be big enough to reach the people that will really appreciate it, and that should be all that matters. This whole visual experience thing is just another bullshit excuse. It isn't necessary. What is necessary is recording good fucking music that you care about as much as you expect us to.

[Sophie]

breathesgelatin, on 13 March 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

Wow Fernando, that is a creepy image.

That made me laugh... :rofl:/>

Allright, no poking fun at Billy nor Björk from now on. -_-/>

[RottingApples]

MoonPI, on 13 March 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

it seems more about image than about the music ..it has become a business and less about bands sitting around jamming and creating something real..

it's become that way because that is what the consumer (read: teenagers) are interested in. They want something flashy, and to accessorize with. There are plenty of bands out there that are solely about the music, but they aren't shiny and "in-yo-face" enough to catch, or hold, their attention. Most kids aren't interested in any kind of higher art form. They just like to giggle along with a song who's hook chorus line is "Fuck you".

Most people are stupid and shallow - therefore the majority of content that attracts them that they will ingest will also be stupid and shallow.

[ShamanO]

did anyone express what they wanted to hear production wise when Zeitgeist was being explained to you as a rock album?

[Simon Belmont]

(I know everyone is sick of me going on and on about this band recently, but it is a good example nevertheless.) I've always been a big fan of the band Thursday, since 2002, but somewhere between 2009 and 2011 they have actually become my favorite band, which before that, had been SP since 1995 or so. Thursday's 2 most recent albums reach me in a way I haven't experienced since the 90s with everything between SD and Machina. I was so in love with their most recent album, No Devolucion, that I have been talking about it for nearly a year to everyone I know. I have made copies of the cd for a lot of my friends, most of them really liked it as well, and were surprised, because Thursday always had a bad reputation as "just a fucking emo band", but that changed when people heard this album.

Anyway, my point is, I have given that cd to probably 15-20 people, and will continue to do so whenever I meet someone I think will like it, because I'm in love with it, it is the most touching album I've heard in at least 10 years, and some of those people I burned that cd for now love it nearly as much as I do, and have proceeded to make copies for some people they know too. That is what happens when someone makes an honest album, people love it, and share it with other people who they think will enjoy it, and it branches out from there. This seems lost on Billy, who for 6-7 years, had most of the world anticipating every move he made because he had made a few albums that people were really passionate about. Now he has to start that process over, because he has lost the confidence of most of his fanbase as well as the general public, and it was mostly his doing.

I'll give him some credit though, on the most recent tour, he was much more friendly and positive when interacting with fans. When we went into the soundcheck, he was talking to all of us, and answering questions, joking around, he was delightful in comparison to what we had seen in the few years prior, so at least that aspect has improved. I just hope when we hear Oceania, we hear some life in the music again, otherwise I can't keep holding out hope here.

[LostSoul]

ShamanO, on 13 March 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

did anyone express what they wanted to hear production wise when Zeitgeist was being explained to you as a rock album?

I'm not sure what you're implying there. Are you trying to defend the production on Zeitgeist? Surely, we should have had an uprising at the time. Damn us.

This post has been edited by LostSoul: 13 March 2012 - 10:31 AM

[ShamanO]

I'm not defending anything.. what I'm saying is Billy and Jimmy supposedly was asking people what they wanted in an album and everyone was yelping a rock album, but I dont think anyone ever thought oh what if the production is shit and therefore no one expressed it. amiright?

[MoonPI]

RottingApples, on 13 March 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

it's become that way because that is what the consumer (read: teenagers) are interested in. They want something flashy, and to accessorize with. There are plenty of bands out there that are solely about the music, but they aren't shiny and "in-yo-face" enough to catch, or hold, their attention. Most kids aren't interested in any kind of higher art form. They just like to giggle along with a song who's hook chorus line is "Fuck you".

Most people are stupid and shallow - therefore the majority of content that attracts them that they will ingest will also be stupid and shallow.

Yes, I would agree with this statement...


but I think success lies when a band can bring it home...

[JSapp]

RottingApples, on 13 March 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

Most people are stupid and shallow - therefore the majority of content that attracts them that they will ingest will also be stupid and shallow.

This

[Gr3g3]

Simon Belmont, on 13 March 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

(I know everyone is sick of me going on and on about this band recently, but it is a good example nevertheless.) I've always been a big fan of the band Thursday, since 2002, but somewhere between 2009 and 2011 they have actually become my favorite band, which before that, had been SP since 1995 or so. Thursday's 2 most recent albums reach me in a way I haven't experienced since the 90s with everything between SD and Machina. I was so in love with their most recent album, No Devolucion, that I have been talking about it for nearly a year to everyone I know. I have made copies of the cd for a lot of my friends, most of them really liked it as well, and were surprised, because Thursday always had a bad reputation as "just a fucking emo band", but that changed when people heard this album.

Anyway, my point is, I have given that cd to probably 15-20 people, and will continue to do so whenever I meet someone I think will like it, because I'm in love with it, it is the most touching album I've heard in at least 10 years, and some of those people I burned that cd for now love it nearly as much as I do, and have proceeded to make copies for some people they know too. That is what happens when someone makes an honest album, people love it, and share it with other people who they think will enjoy it, and it branches out from there. This seems lost on Billy, who for 6-7 years, had most of the world anticipating every move he made because he had made a few albums that people were really passionate about. Now he has to start that process over, because he has lost the confidence of most of his fanbase as well as the general public, and it was mostly his doing.

I'll give him some credit though, on the most recent tour, he was much more friendly and positive when interacting with fans. When we went into the soundcheck, he was talking to all of us, and answering questions, joking around, he was delightful in comparison to what we had seen in the few years prior, so at least that aspect has improved. I just hope when we hear Oceania, we hear some life in the music again, otherwise I can't keep holding out hope here.

Can you show us on this doll exactly where Thursday touched you?

[Rakastaakissa]

RottingApples, on 13 March 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

Most people are stupid and shallow - therefore the majority of content that attracts them that they will ingest will also be stupid and shallow.

I disagree, it's all in marketing, and aiming for your audience. If you want to reach a broad audience you include things that everyone can find something they like about it. Black Eyed Peas is a good example, it's not Rock, it's not Pop, and it's not Hip Hop, but it includes all of that. It creates a mediocre product to some, but it makes it widely accessible. Justin Timberlake's Futuresex/Love Songs was the same way, Adele as well... Look at all those grammies.

[LostSoul]

ShamanO, on 13 March 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

I'm not defending anything.. what I'm saying is Billy and Jimmy supposedly was asking people what they wanted in an album and everyone was yelping a rock album, but I dont think anyone ever thought oh what if the production is shit and therefore no one expressed it. amiright?

Ah. Fair enough. Although, I suppose people should have almost anticipated that after the Zwan record. The mix was pretty loud on that one, too...was it not? Even TFE to a lesser extent. Perhaps people felt Billy just needed to try something new and was leaving the concept behind....oh. They were wrong as shit, clearly. :lol:/>

I think Zeitgeist would have been amazing if they followed a Machina II style. Rough, raw and organic while being altogether forboding. It would have made a perfect continuation. I could live with the less than great lyrics on most songs, and his vocals if they were mixed lower, had they only gone for a rawer sound. Doomsday Clock, 7 Shades and US without the dressings and ear-bleedingly loud drums/vox/guitars? Oh, that would be excellent. I'm thinking in the vein of Dross.

Although I do not agree with the outcome of Zeitgeist, I can at least understand why the label wouldn't let him release the rougher mix (I believe he stated this on Facebook Q&A). Although we know the opposite to be true, most labels in that situation would pressure the band to create a very polished, almost robotic product for the sake of drawing people in. The Foo's newest album may have done well as a very garage-rock excursion, but can we say the same would have worked for SP? The Foos have always been huge. Mainly because of the whole "he used to be in Nirvana and Nirvana is God" thing. The Pumpkins largely lost their popularity after Adore. Releasing an unpolished product would be a huge commercial risk. And the reception after the fact may have been inherently negative, but the fact remains that Zeitgeist initially sold pretty damn well in this day & age. Because it was modernized, over-produced radio rock. I would love to see the casual fan reactions to US if he recorded it like they played it live in late 2008. Or even if he screamed or shouted like he used to for Doomsday Clock or 7 Shades.

[ShamanO]

I'd say Zeitgeist seems to have the loudest mix. And if it wasn't so robotic sounding it probably would have sounded even better. I loved the live versions of the songs compared to the album, but I still love and respect the album even with the loudness to it, he tried and that counts for something right? I think the lyrics on that album are fascinating. I love Machina II also BUT it also needs to be cleaned up a bit from what I have heard by the downloads i have. it's almost too rough sounding.

[LostSoul]

...but that's what gives Machina II it's character! :whattodo:/>

[ShamanO]

:lol:/> here's the deal...perhaps if we got to hear the actual vinyl of it maybe it would sound a bit different than what was recorded and downloaded..not saying it would be 100% different, but I'm sure we aren't getting the full sound quality of it.

[pastup]

man some of these comments are harsh.


https://www.facebook...317351788318955

[Simon Belmont]

pastup, on 13 March 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

man some of these comments are harsh.


https://www.facebook...317351788318955

Jesus...the guy put on a few pounds, people act like he's morbidly obese. He was TOO skinny in 2007, he looked unhealthy. He doesn't look that much heavier now than he did in the 90s.

[pastup]

Simon Belmont, on 13 March 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

Jesus...the guy put on a few pounds, people act like he's morbidly obese. He was TOO skinny in 2007, he looked unhealthy. He doesn't look that much heavier now than he did in the 90s.

It's just a bad picture.

[ShamanO]

pastup, on 13 March 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

man some of these comments are harsh.


https://www.facebook...317351788318955

haters gonna hate

If he had a double chin or triple chin then their comments might be more valid, however I think he looks great right now. He looks sickly when he is too thin and I dont like that look on him

[pastup]

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd181/rrussia/120313-billy-corgan.jpg

[ShamanO]

lol his head is being pulled back into his body. If you do it you would expose more chin too unless you are toothpick skinny

it's still a cute pic BACK OFF

[LostSoul]

Simon Belmont, on 13 March 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

Jesus...the guy put on a few pounds, people act like he's morbidly obese. He was TOO skinny in 2007, he looked unhealthy. He doesn't look that much heavier now than he did in the 90s.

I agree. He looked like death until recently...

[MoonPI]

pastup, on 13 March 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

man some of these comments are harsh.


https://www.facebook...317351788318955

I saw these comments this morning from my phone and my heart was broken...
I wanted so bad to say something , but I bit my tongue :innocent:/>


YOU are BEAUTIFUL Billy

[RottingApples]

ShamanO, on 13 March 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

I'm not defending anything.. what I'm saying is Billy and Jimmy supposedly was asking people what they wanted in an album and everyone was yelping a rock album, but I dont think anyone ever thought oh what if the production is shit and therefore no one expressed it. amiright?

In that case, we would have needed to tell them every little detail in advance, instead of leaving it to (what we thought was their good) judgment.

Bad production.
Lack of variety in songs.
Poor vocal performance.
Weak lyrics.

How many of these things were we supposed to yell out and request ahead of time? As opposed to hoping that the band would just get it right as they had done in the past. Everyone assumed Billy had very capable hands.

Rakastaakissa, on 13 March 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

I disagree, it's all in marketing, and aiming for your audience. If you want to reach a broad audience you include things that everyone can find something they like about it. Black Eyed Peas is a good example, it's not Rock, it's not Pop, and it's not Hip Hop, but it includes all of that. It creates a mediocre product to some, but it makes it widely accessible. Justin Timberlake's Futuresex/Love Songs was the same way, Adele as well... Look at all those grammies.

In that case, all you're left with is a watered-down end result that is intended to be as in-offensive to as many people as possible.

[gyang333]

ShamanO, on 13 March 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

lol his head is being pulled back into his body. If you do it you would expose more chin too unless you are toothpick skinny

it's still a cute pic BACK OFF

he's training to become a turtle

[Raoul]

My basic thought process is, what has Billy done to improve the Rock scene in this millennium? has he been a positive force, or a negative? And the overwhelming answer is negative. He hasn't released an album of genuine quality, an album with genuine hope, soul or message - he has slagged off his old band mates - had public fights with Courtney Love and Malkamus - he has hanged out with social rats like that Tequila chick - lent himself to tacky wrestling videos - abused crowds, journalist etc etc etc. But most of all, he has failed to write an album with genuine soul and heart, and even failed to write a single song that touches your heard. I honestly think he hasn't written a song with genuine heart and emotion since "For Martha", a song that just rips into your chest and strangles your heart, while the loving face of a mother smiles at you to assure you everything is going to be ok.. Music people fall in love to is something like this - not Widow make my Mind, Tom Tom or Doomsday Clock.

Rock needs a genuine artist to come out and write a brilliant album with soul. Then what it needs is this same artist to back it up again, then the artist to act humble and human after that success. Radiohead have been doing it for years, and the major disappointment for me is that i always thought Billy had the talent and heart to do the same. It is becoming clearer to everyone, including himself, that this may be a sham. I hope Oceania is the turning point, but watching him already going on about the industry - looking at gimmicks to how to release it - makes me think, perhaps not. All he needs to worry about is writing great music to get the world to have faith in him again, then back that album up with another great album. Does anyone else get the feeling that Billy thinks this album is his last great album? As he sure as hell doesn't seem to be wanting to leave anything in the bank for the sequel.

Rock has lost its power because its artist are following the proto-type set before them for the last 4 decades - the music used to be the over-powering thing with Rock, but slowly but surely all the bitching, arrogance, pretentiousness, drugs and everytjhing else not musical has overtaken the actual substance- Rock! My belief is the young bands of today are following bands leads like the pumpkins and Billy - more interested in fighting with each other than uniting and being challenged by each other the same way Brian Wilson and the Beatles used to- friendly competiition. Now they prefer to act like brats and spoilt prima donna's - Billy Corgan much?

Just release the fucking album Corgan. If its good, the word will spread. Prove you can do it twice in a row still, and you will be part of a revolutional wave that can start to put everything in its right place again. Why leave it up to the kids, if you can still do it yourself. Stop the cheap shots at young artist trying to find a new niche to have careers - if the industry is so tough for these kids to be able to write that album - then you old dogs need to get up and do it for them and help change the industry back to what it needs to be. Neil young still got it, and if lennon was alive he would be doing it. Why aren't you?

[nasalscarecrow]

I agree with most of that in spite of that fact that I have indeed loved several songs he's written since For Martha.

[pastup]

ShamanO, on 13 March 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

lol his head is being pulled back into his body. If you do it you would expose more chin too unless you are toothpick skinny

it's still a cute pic BACK OFF

Yeah it's really not that bad of a pic but the thumbnail on facebook looks kind of odd. I blame spin who picked up the story from Billboard I think but at the same time they are still covering the story and talking about the upcoming album so even though it's not very flattering it's still good exposure.

here's the billboard link http://www.billboard...006436552.story

[vescret]

he was perfect weight in 09 and in 2010

[pastup]

Another guess of mine about the "experience" of Oceania is something maybe similar to what the webisodes have been like for the Gish and SD reissues.

[vescret]

i would love if they do the webisode thing for oceania especially if they did it with the full band

[LostSoul]

Who really gives a flying fuck about his weight? Really? He's fine as he is. He isn't deathly skinny anymore, and he isn't obese. AT ALL. So shut up.

What concerns me more than how many doughnuts he's been packing in is him releasing good music in June and regaining his integrity as a musician. As someone who despises 95% of the 2007-2011 studio output, I truly hope he does. I'd hate to see a talent like his go to waste. Because if you really think about it, he is at his peak as a guitarist. Bar the creativity factor and what he comes up with these days, he is tight as shit as far as his playing. He always has been, but think about the tours since the reformation. What is the one good thing people come up with usually? "The band was tight as hell technically speaking." "Billy & Jeff have a chemistry." "Billy played the guitar parts perfectly." Regardless of the other complaints, I've seen that more often than not.

What I am getting at is, he is at a plateau with his guitar playing. Now, if only he could get that special creative spark back, imagine what he could come up with.

Though far from the greatest things he's written, I will say this...

The opening guitar to Oceania (as well as most of the last third of the song) and the entirety of guitar in My Love Is Winter are the most interesting sounding parts he's come up with in a while. They have that special feeling that I hope is not lost in-studio. So, if he's captured the spark again...then we'll be in for a treat.

I like the idea of doing something for Oceania like he's done with the Reissue webisodes.