[ShamanO]

frednirv632, on 13 April 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

what difference does it make? Same goes for the acoustic MAchina demos. They're already out there in good enough quality.

because I can be a brat.

and sprc is getting more advertisement than the pumpkins.net on the web. so if the goal is to hit people with music then get the shit on the site that is getting put into the limelight rather than have it being at a more obscure site. make sense?

[Drevpile]

If they really wanted the SPRC to be inclusive of fans and thereby fan-sites, they could very easily set up a really visible splash page to publicise / link to the quality stuff that is already out there. I think it's fair to assume though, that the so called inclusion only goes so far as vague consultation (at this stage, lets hope that changes) rather than actually promoting any other SP resource.

[lucciola]

Drevpile, that was perfection. Thank you.

[Simon]

Some good points raised. Now let's not all get dramatic about it.

[bosmanad]

My main suggestion is only for the first release, whatever it is and however it's released: make it something from mid SP career. From a popularity standpoint, I don't think releasing a bunch of Marked Demos is going to get a lot of support. Release Mellon Collie or Adore Demos. Machina Acoustic shows. Something fun. I'd like the Zeitgeist sessions, but I would never suggest that as an early Record Club release for the same reason.

Simply put: the weird releases won't move as many units, which will be essential to launch the club. Those things can come later.

[MonteLDS]

I had a phone interview with Billy today about the project. I plan to release on Tuesday.

[frednirv632]

On top of everything that has been said previously in this thread, I would love more instrumental mixes of some of the more layered, pretty tracks (like Soma in the SD reissue box). Maybe Porcelina, Mayonaise, Ruby, For Martha, SIYL, etc.

Also Puff Daddy Ava Adore, for novelty's sake.

[ShamanO]

Another wait. Another announcement of an announcement! Fun times!

[RottingApples]

I really have to echo Drevpile on the significance of getting a compiled listing (however vast it may be) of everything that is available in the Archives. We can request a lot of things that we know (or assume) are in the vaults, but I'd imagine there's quite a bit that would be of interest that none of us fans know about. If an Archive guide could be made available, and allow the fans to vote/poll on the comprehensive list of material, I feel that would be the best way of gauging interest of particular items.

[.absof.]

Dusty, on 13 April 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

I also think its a shame that the Live Smashing Pumpkins recordings were taken down. The mastered 20th Anniversary Shows sounded great, and as someone who wasn't a fan at the time, I would have liked to have gotten a physical copy of a Black Crosses/White Sunshine two night stand.

http://www.livedownl...-downloads.html

Not sure if someone posted this for you yet..

[gyang333]

why is the contact information for the Lucky 13 on facebook listed as crestfallen.com? I thought this is an official SP endeavour?

[.absof.]

Use the Ten Club as a starting point.

I'd be willing to pay any reasonable amount (CD $15-20, DVD $20-25) for any physical releases. But if the packaging is as shit as the 20th Anniversary shows you can cut those prices in half..

My list;


'Final' Metro DVD/CD
Detroit 99
2007 Comeback
Brussels 98

[TheLucky13]

RottingApples, on 13 April 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

Regardless, I always get excited over the prospects of these archival releases. I think one of the biggest past problems that should be avoided actually doesn't have to do with the content, but with the fan relations. Regular updates on content, both informationally and in the delivery of the items, has been a problem in the past. Going months without any information, or months with only one demo released discourages fans. That's not to say that the expectation is for a CDs worth of stuff every day, by any means. But dry spells and no updates frustrates people and generates negativity.

We definitely hear you on that. Everyone on the team has been involved in the SP online community since the Adore era and have experienced past initiatives first-hand. We are aiming for open communication, consistency and regular updates. We have noted the shortcomings of the past and have no desire to repeat them. We are all on the same page in that we want material from the archives to be released. For this project to work, we have to establish a communal experience where fans can agree on the product, format and pricing model for each release. Most of the material will probably be released via some type of kickstarter method. So, it's really important for fans to be actively involved in all stages of the process. We are here to respond to any questions and/or concerns.

geofolkers, on 13 April 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

can we have some sort of time line? Can some of us help with this push? For the success of SPRC? Id love to see this succeed. I think we all know this is a great project :)/>

Many things will be clearer once the interview with Billy is released on Monday. He mentioned wanting to get things released as soon as possible. The sooner we can figure out the product, format and price as a community - the better for the timeline of a release.

[TheLucky13]

Drevpile, on 13 April 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

1) Rename 'The Lucky 13' immediately. It already feels non-inclusive
2) Be transparent; reveal who this team are. If people get even the faintest whiff of a rat, this isn't going to work
3) Score an early win - release the damn Metro Show
4) [a] Consult the fans who know, who really know, the history and availability of current bootlegs/material
4) [b] DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE EXCLUDE Netphoria or any other long standing message board; speak to at least CoolAsIceCream, 34, Redbull, Spaldz and PistolPete
5) [a] Do not, DO NOT, bandy about pricing, release models, packaging or anything else for a product which does not exist. Seriously, I repeat, do not do this again
5) [b] If a real archivist has been at work, seriously, if you had a real archivist on this project - listen carefully and;
release the catalogue for the fans to understand what the base library actually is.
Make it easy for them to understand; apportion said library into sections by era and media. Then rate, with examples, quality of said media in it's raw format.
5 [c] Define your objectives (is this about releasing quality or quantity). This will help inform said fans what sort of pricing structure they may wish to consider for said material
6 Stop being vague. Stop it. Seriously
7) [a]Thus, again, create Samples
7) [b] and create direct feedback model against said samples ie; polls
8) Do not release anything post 2008
9) Do not listen to ANYONE who touts GM Palace 1997 as there favourite boot
10) Do not listen to ANYONE who touts post 2008 material as superior, in any shape or form, to any previous work. Even Blinking with Fists
11) Know your demographic: Listen very carefully, to this; your fans are not, in the main, idiots. Please stop treating us as such with running such an amateur outfit. You have already, once again, opened the flood gates for people to be disappointed that you haven't considered their own absolutely ground-breaking idea; there is no way on this planet that you are going to be able to aggregate the multitude of vague recommendations / demands / ideas which will inevitably pop-up. Start again. Make clear you vision and your values for the project, explain how and what you want to deliver and then and then open it up to consultation
13) GET. IT. DONE.

1. The name was chosen by Billy. We have every intention of being as inclusive as possible.

2. In all seriousness, every fan that will get involved in this project is a member of the team. Every request essentially counts as a vote and the fan-demand is passed onto Billy. As for the members of "The Lucky 13" - some prefer to remain anonymous at the moment. I can say that all members are knowledgeable and long-time fans. A few members are serious traders and collectors while other members have extensive experience in archiving, data collecting and logistics. We are all dedicated fans that are working close with Billy to get the material released.

3. You will get an update about this on Monday.

4. a) All members know the history and availability of current bootlegs/material quite extensively

b) We hope that all fans who wish to support the release of material will get involved in the project and have their say. The people you mentioned will definitely have their suggestions heard.

5. a) Duly noted - we will only get to the stage of establishing a pricing model only when Billy has confirmed that a specific product can be released in either digital or physical format

b) In the interview with Billy that will be released on Monday, he mentions making the list available to the public. However, this will only happen if WE (as fans) can get past this initial stage and setup a communal project that works.

c) Great advice - we learned quite a bit ourselves from the interview with Billy today. We will make the objectives clearer in a few days time. For this specific initiative, it is definitely quality over quantity.

6. Let us know what we are being vague about and we will be sure to clarify

7. a) & b) Making samples available and running polls is definitely in the plan

8. This project will not cover anything post-December 2000.

9. What about if there is pro-video footage from this show?

10. This project will not cover anything post-December 2000.

11. No SP staff is involved in this project except for Billy - we are all fans that are willing to put in the work to get archival material released. When you say, "explain how and what you want to deliver and then open it up to consultation" - that seems exclusive, no? You don't want to be involved in that process?

12. I think you are missing #12?

13. A few members have setup large SP online databases that you probably use quite frequently - we will get it done.

[TheLucky13]

RottingApples, on 13 April 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

I really have to echo Drevpile on the significance of getting a compiled listing (however vast it may be) of everything that is available in the Archives. We can request a lot of things that we know (or assume) are in the vaults, but I'd imagine there's quite a bit that would be of interest that none of us fans know about. If an Archive guide could be made available, and allow the fans to vote/poll on the comprehensive list of material, I feel that would be the best way of gauging interest of particular items.

In the future, we hope to offer some kind of archive guide. For the initial releases, it will probably be best to recommend to Billy material that we know exists and have waited quite some time for. For the project to be sustainable, a release has to at least break-even before moving on to the next. Does anyone oppose this stance?

gyang333, on 13 April 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

why is the contact information for the Lucky 13 on facebook listed as crestfallen.com? I thought this is an official SP endeavour?

This is definitely an official SP endeavour. The revamped SP.com site should be launching soon and we will use a @smashingpumpkins.com email address once it is created.

[cleric]

@ people mentioning a new documentary - i read that there is supposed to be a documentary with the completion of teargarden.

from SPRC i would like a list of everything in the archive. surely you have a log of everything you've come across so far.

i would like all professionally taped or filmed live shows, soundboard recordings, unreleased songs, demos and alternate takes.

i do not wish for any more mp3s. cd quality and above, please. preferably physical releases.
you mention fans agreeing on a format - this is worrying. a lot are happy with mp3s. these people should be able to make their own god-damn stupid mp3s out of quality files/discs.

"This project will not cover anything post-December 2000" - but post 2000 stuff will be released in the future?

who are the 13 people? do you all go and see the current line-up when possible?
i just read that you all wish to remain anonymous - tut tut.

don't bother asking fans about price. it'll cost what it costs.

thanks.

ps metro dvd

[geofolkers]

would anything pre- Pumpkins be used? The Marked? Coat of Eyes?

[frosty]

TheLucky13, on 13 April 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

2. In all seriousness, every fan that will get involved in this project is a member of the team. Every request essentially counts as a vote and the fan-demand is passed onto Billy. As for the members of "The Lucky 13" - some prefer to remain anonymous at the moment. I can say that all members are knowledgeable and long-time fans. A few members are serious traders and collectors while other members have extensive experience in archiving, data collecting and logistics. We are all dedicated fans that are working close with Billy to get the material released.

oh yeah that's a good answer. :rolleyes:/>

[rosenkreuzer]

what kind of crap is that now again?
as if billy doesnt know what we want to hear.
as if we didnt gave enough imput all the last years.

i give this project 2 month till
it'll be over and forgotten. im not bitter, just realistic.

[AndyToe]

I hate it when you're right, T

[geofolkers]

no matter what project or idea the Pumpkins come up with I think its important for all of us to have a positive perspective. I dont know a band that has given more music than the Pumpkins. Even if all you do is collect the releases and rarities, there is an endless release of something. So far we have a great start to fan based input. Lets be excited we are at this point! Lets be happy we can contrbute. Nothing positive is built with negitivity.

[rosenkreuzer]

YAY! UNICORNS!

:eyebrow:/>

[SPfreaks]

Superb initiative this is, finally something that made me return to this board again since I don't know when... :)/>

How many bands out there let fans cooperate on a global scale, to help decide what the next release(s) will be? What bands out there can say that their vaults are so stuffed with interesting highlights, that the owner of this immense archive is asking help to uncover the most wanted beauties? Man, this is so awesome! :buttrock:/>

My advice would be... a long running Vieuphoria series (II, III, IV etc), on dvd obviously, 1 each half year for 15-20 USD each. Surprise us with any random content, compiled from all the recommendations above!

:popcorn:/> :cheers:/>

[TheLucky13]

cleric, on 14 April 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

i do not wish for any more mp3s. cd quality and above, please. preferably physical releases.
you mention fans agreeing on a format - this is worrying. a lot are happy with mp3s. these people should be able to make their own god-damn stupid mp3s out of quality files/discs.

"This project will not cover anything post-December 2000" - but post 2000 stuff will be released in the future?

who are the 13 people? do you all go and see the current line-up when possible?
i just read that you all wish to remain anonymous - tut tut.

don't bother asking fans about price. it'll cost what it costs.

thanks.

ps metro dvd

Well, over the course of productive debates - fans can hopefully propose a format (or more) and price for each item to be released. I am sure that we can come up with some kind of consensus. Let's say soundboard recordings - is there a demand for that in vinyl? There is the option of mixed packages where 200 people can order a boxset to make a release break-even and then subsequent digital releases can be sold at a lesser price. Billy is open to hearing different ideas and options.

Well for the initial stages, we will only consider pre-December 2000 material. There are plans to release post December-2000 material with subsequent reissues and when Billy gets back the rights. Billy clarifies his plans for post-December 2000 material in the interview that will be released on Monday.

No - read that again. The text said that SOME members wish to stay anonymous at the moment.

It's not so much about the fans deciding the price - Billy will tell us the cost to release a product. It's more of us coming up with a pricing system where all types of fans can have access to the material and where the release of a product can at least break-even.

frosty, on 14 April 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

oh yeah that's a good answer. :rolleyes:/>

Ok. Would a list of names and SP-related credentials suffice? Is that want people want? Is the issue of the identity of the members so essential that this project cannot continue without? Please let us know. As stated before, we have to create a communal experience for this project to work.

rosenkreuzer, on 14 April 2012 - 04:54 AM, said:

what kind of crap is that now again?
as if billy doesnt know what we want to hear.
as if we didnt gave enough imput all the last years.

i give this project 2 month till
it'll be over and forgotten. im not bitter, just realistic.

It's how Billy wants the material to be released - he wants fans to feel invested in what comes out. He wants a sustainable project where material can be released over the next few years.

You would be surprised what Billy knows and what he does not. He mentioned in the interview that will be released on Monday how he forgot that the Adore documentary was filmed until he read the Flashback Friday post on crestfallen.com. We know what people want - we're simply just establishing a system and making sure the demands are relatively the same after all these years.

Well if you are realistic - feel free to offer advice on how this initiative can work. As fans, this seems to be our only chance to ever get more things released from the archive. If you want more of how SPRC has been since December 2011 - then keep putting this initiative down.

[AndyToe]

TheLucky13, on 14 April 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

Well, over the course of productive debates - fans can hopefully propose a format (or more) and price for each item to be released. I am sure that we can come up with some kind of consensus. Let's say soundboard recordings - is there a demand for that in vinyl? There is the option of mixed packages where 200 people can order a boxset to make a release break-even and then subsequent digital releases can be sold at a lesser price. Billy is open to hearing different ideas and options.

Well for the initial stages, we will only consider pre-December 2000 material. There are plans to release post December-2000 material with subsequent reissues and when Billy gets back the rights. Billy clarifies his plans for post-December 2000 material in the interview that will be released on Monday.

No - read that again. The text said that SOME members wish to stay anonymous for the moment.

It's not so much about the fans deciding the price - Billy will tell us the cost to release a product. It's more of us coming up with a pricing system where all types of fans can have access to the material and where the release of a product can at least break-even.



Ok. Would a list of names and SP-related credentials suffice? Is that want people want? Is the issue of the identity of the members so essential that this project cannot continue without? Please let us know. As stated before, we have to create a communal experience for this project to work.



It's how Billy wants the material to be released - he wants fans to feel invested in what comes out. He wants a sustainable project where material can be released over the next few years.

You would be surprised what Billy knows and what he does not. He mentioned in the interview that will be released on Monday how he forgot that the Adore documentary was filmed until he read the Flashback Friday post on crestfallen.com. We know what people want - we're simply just establishing a system and making sure the demands are relatively the same after all these years.

Well if you are realistic - feel free to offer advice on how this initiative can work. As fans, this seems to be our only chance to ever get more things released from the archive. If you want more of how SPRC has been since December 2011 - then keep putting this initiative down.

I dont need to know who you are.
What I need to know is that this time, this wont die into the realms of obscurity like everything else.
The only thing I know i'll pay for is the Metro DVD.
Live audio is unimportant to me, unless it is a song ive never heard and that will never get a studio release.
Old demo songs, as long as they're good quality (As MP3's - Ha, take that, hipsters) and only if they're largely unknown to me.

Old demos of songs I know have very little weight for me, and I feel it would be the same for the vast majority of fans (if it comes to having to pay similar prices to a new CD)

[rosenkreuzer]

Metro DVD.

No excuses this time.

[TheLucky13]

geofolkers, on 14 April 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

would anything pre- Pumpkins be used? The Marked? Coat of Eyes?

Yes, pre-Pumpkins material is available for request and release.

[AndyToe]

TheLucky13, on 14 April 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

Yes, pre-Pumpkins material is available for request and release.

So it's not the Smashing Pumpkins Record Club, its the Billy Corgan Record Club?

[TheLucky13]

AndyToe, on 14 April 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

So it's not the Smashing Pumpkins Record Club, its the Billy Corgan Record Club?

Well Billy would like to release Zwan, TFE, Chicago Kid & Pre-Pumpkins material to fans - so perhaps? For now, it looks like the initial releases will be Smashing Pumpkins material.

[AndyToe]

Gotcha.

[Parksey]

lucky 13 acoustic

[misguided]

Pre-Gish stuff and Final Metro show!

And anything else. :D/>

[Mayfair]

i'm sorry, but how was i not invited to be a part of this? what the fuck?

RottingApples, on 13 April 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

- Audio/ Video for all 4 Complete Double Door '95 performances.

no video, remember?

This post has been edited by Mayfair: 14 April 2012 - 07:49 AM

[TheLucky13]

Mayfair, on 14 April 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

how was i not invited to be a part of this?

We are just an intermediary team that has established a level of trust in communicating back and forth with Billy. We would be more than honored to have your input in all aspects of the project. If you wish, you can lead discussions on Netphoria?

We asked Billy to look into the question of pro-video footage of the 1995 Double Door performances.

[Mayfair]

TheLucky13, on 14 April 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

If you wish, you can lead discussions on Netphoria?

fuck no. :shocked:/>


but i would be interested in getting down to chi town to go through the archives. keep me posted. :thumbsup:/>

TheLucky13, on 14 April 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

We asked Billy to look into the question of pro-video footage of the 1995 Double Door performances.

tell him to call Don Dowdy. that would be his only hope. I sincerely doubt MTV is going to let that footage go, so Don is his only option it seems.

[TheLucky13]

Mayfair, on 14 April 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

fuck no. :shocked:/>

lol - well someone has to do it!

Mayfair, on 14 April 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

tell him to call Don Dowdy. that would be his only hope. I sincerely doubt MTV is going to let that footage go, so Don is his only option it seems.

Ok will do - thanks for the info Mayfair!

[Mayfair]

is BC gonna take care of my flight down to Chicago? http://forums.netphoria.org/wwwboard/icons/icon10.gif


if he is, i will put in some serious work when i get down there.

[TheLucky13]

Mayfair, on 14 April 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

is BC gonna take care of my flight down to Chicago? http://forums.netphoria.org/wwwboard/icons/icon10.gif


if he is, i will put in some serious work when i get down there.

You know how it goes - you would have to submit a 30-page business proposal outlining all your planned activities in the archive :p/>

[Mayfair]

haha

[ShamanO]

Mayfair, on 14 April 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

haha

better off making it 33 pages for SP song reference-you'd be sure to get in then

[cleric]

TheLucky13, on 14 April 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

Well, over the course of productive debates - fans can hopefully propose a format (or more) and price for each item to be released. I am sure that we can come up with some kind of consensus. Let's say soundboard recordings - is there a demand for that in vinyl? There is the option of mixed packages where 200 people can order a boxset to make a release break-even and then subsequent digital releases can be sold at a lesser price. Billy is open to hearing different ideas and options.

Well for the initial stages, we will only consider pre-December 2000 material. There are plans to release post December-2000 material with subsequent reissues and when Billy gets back the rights. Billy clarifies his plans for post-December 2000 material in the interview that will be released on Monday.

No - read that again. The text said that SOME members wish to stay anonymous at the moment.

It's not so much about the fans deciding the price - Billy will tell us the cost to release a product. It's more of us coming up with a pricing system where all types of fans can have access to the material and where the release of a product can at least break-even.

so long as the proposed format list prioritises quality formats over mp3, then that's good.

if the soundboards you mention were recorded in analogue, then maybe try issuing a vinyl. if it was recorded in cd quality, then i would say release it in cd quality. if 24/96 etc..

oh, some wish to remain anonymous? :happy:/> guess what... i still think that it sounds silly.
maybe most of 'em are like the above jaded posters who've been whinging about the band for years. are they? please tell me they aren't.

so, the project will include post 2000 stuff, just not yet.

i would pay full whack for a physical product.
do you guys need to charge more than albums/dvds in the stores for this to be feasible or what? do you need charge the same? less?
why over the last couple of years they couldn't have made a couple of nice releases and noted how much profit is in it, is beyond me. is it not possible they could've made a profit and used that money for subsequent releases? might save having to read the same thing each year about pricing systems.

thanks for the response.

edit - i now see that you want mayfair on board - someone who's been complaining about the band here on their website since 2007 at the latest. not interested in your project anymore. i never expected such idiocy. thanks for wasting my time.

[frednirv632]

lolwut

[AndyToe]

cleric, on 14 April 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

i would pay full whack for a physical product.

Brilliant work there.
Tell billy that no matter what he charges, idiots are always there to line up because they're allergic to their money.

[ShamanO]

this seems messy thinking right now.

I would like to see the items for release be broken down into eras and then sections like dvd/video, live bootlegs, studio, demos
then make a list of what items we could vote on per section. like starting with highest fan demands 1st. (I'm aware the metro dvd is highest, but I don't think that should be the 1st thing released)

this way there are a few things to be worked on and releasing things can come out with a steady continuous flow and not waiting for many months in between releases. each month could be a release of something. I dont think having a shit ton of stuff to release all at once is wise as it can become too clusterfucked, but I could be wrong. But if it were to be done in a TIMELY manner like a specific date each month for the release, that way it is ready to go and people won't complain about 2 months have passed and nothing. There needs to be some priority about getting things done on time and out to the fans if it were to be done like that. I'm sure if those that are involved can get this done and collaborate enough together to ensure this happens.

for example: every 2nd Monday of the month a new release comes out. This way there is a deadline to get these released on time. (use a specific monthly date if you want this is just an example)
however as these items are released they will always be available in the released sections (broken down by eras and content) unless the release is specified for "limited time only" and to see news of what is coming out next maybe? offer a mini preview somehow?