[pump_up_ the_volume]

I'm the most excited for MCIS reissue, because it can benefit a lot from remastering. Sound is too muddied and vocals need to be cleaned up. I've played it on high end speakers and equipment, and I can't believe Billy allowed it to be released like that. Too much unintended distortion, so I'm really hoping that someone will clean it up.

[AlienCloak]

Examples?

[solacematt]

What, were you expecting it to sound like Gish or SD? Quite a few reasons why the record sounds different - Different Producer, Engineers, Mixer, a lot of different gear tonally made it very different. They used pro Tools when it was still very new to recording as well.

[bigbandornoband]

Um, I would adamantly disagree that MCIS has unintentional distortion.

They did a lot of 8-bit processing, lo-fi effecting etc to dirty things up, as is Floods wont - - might that be what you're hearing?

And while I would agree the sound could be more open, I'm afraid that'd be more of a mix-decision issue, not so much a mastering thing (though improvements are always possible).

If you do hear artifacts or jitter, that may be any number of things eg arising from your particular source and/or setup.

Bear in mind that many "hi-end" systems do weird things to audio in the name of making it "better", including additional compression, stereo-widening etc.

Rule of thumb : so-called Hi-Fi equipment is designed with classical music in mind. Audiophile-grade classical records are recorded with a simple stereo setup and little to no compression.... Which means the systems are good for classical and jazz, but not even a good option for the signal levels and slammed dynamic range in post-1991 modern rock..

[pump_up_ the_volume]

solacematt, on 30 November 2011 - 03:22 PM, said:

What, were you expecting it to sound like Gish or SD? Quite a few reasons why the record sounds different - Different Producer, Engineers, Mixer, a lot of different gear tonally made it very different. They used pro Tools when it was still very new to recording as well.

Compared to Gish and SD, it sounds overproduced. You hear the distortion right? I think a remix and remaster would really clean up the sound. My prediction: MCIS reissue will be the most improved compared to the original.

This post has been edited by pump_up_ the_volume: 30 November 2011 - 03:43 PM

[solacematt]

The only real difference I hear is with the guitars...yea, they are very muddy, but to me it always sounded like they were playing on the neck pickups of their guitars instead of the bridge for a cleaner sound :p/> Personally I don't think it sounds overproduced, if anything under produced compared to what came before it. MCIS is a bit more stripped down.

[pump_up_ the_volume]

bigbandornoband, on 30 November 2011 - 03:37 PM, said:

They did a lot of 8-bit processing, lo-fi effecting etc to dirty things up, as is Floods wont - - might that be what you're hearing?

Yep, that's what I'm talking about - dirty, muddy sounding guitar. I think MCIS is kind of a sonic mess. Don't know if it's the mixing or the mastering, but there's a lot of room for improvement.

My equipment is fully capable of handling MCIS properly, it's probably 99% optimal.

This post has been edited by pump_up_ the_volume: 30 November 2011 - 03:56 PM

[Hater]

My equipment can only handle the 1979 remixes.

[pump_up_ the_volume]

solacematt, on 30 November 2011 - 03:44 PM, said:

if anything, under produced compared to what came before it. MCIS is a bit more stripped down.

No way. MCIS more stripped down than Gish? MCIS has tons of guitar, vocal and electronic effects that Gish and SD don't.

This post has been edited by pump_up_ the_volume: 30 November 2011 - 04:04 PM

[Lunatic]

MCIS, for me, has always been a bit too bottom-heavy.

[bigbandornoband]

pump_up_ the_volume, on 30 November 2011 - 03:50 PM, said:

Yep, that's what I'm talking about - dirty, muddy sounding guitar. I think MCIS is kind of a sonic mess. Don't know if it's the mixing or the mastering, but there's a lot of room for improvement.

Then I must inform you that the sonic mess you describe is intentional (I would argue desirable, but to each his own)

Unintentional clipping ( the kind of distortion I assumed we were talking about here) happens at no point during MCIS..

BTW, are you sure you're not talking about Machina, dude? Because that would give the two universes we're speaking from a chance of realigning. : )

[Deleted User Account]

MCIS is the only record that sounds like a band playing imo.

[CourtJaster]

I've never cared for the Mellon Collie mix/master either, but I doubt anything will change on the reissue.

All I would really want is greater clarity in certain areas and an overall boost in volume- MCIS songs are always lower than any other songs I've heard.


But yeah, no, probably not gonna happen.

[Lull]

Lunatic, on 30 November 2011 - 04:12 PM, said:

MCIS, for me, has always been a bit too bottom-heavy.

Just like the new D'arcy

ArticulateEric, on 30 November 2011 - 05:47 PM, said:

MCIS is the only record that sounds like a band playing imo.

Gish doesn't sound like a band to you? Huh?

[pump_up_ the_volume]

bigbandornoband, on 30 November 2011 - 05:28 PM, said:

Then I must inform you that the sonic mess you describe is intentional (I would argue desirable, but to each his own)

Unintentional clipping ( the kind of distortion I assumed we were talking about here) happens at no point during MCIS..

BTW, are you sure you're not talking about Machina, dude? Because that would give the two universes we're speaking from a chance of realigning. : )

I never said it was clipping.

Unintentional distortion doesn't necessarily mean clipping. But, who cares? We agree that there is distortion. I wonder if Billy ever listens to MCIS and thinks "Damn, we should clean that up a bit. Sounds too fuzzy."

Oops, I just looked at the disc... for fuck's sake, it IS Machina. Mellon Collie, Machina - they both start with an M! All these years, I had the wrong fucking cd. Thanks for setting me straight on that.

[ShamanO]

:scatch:/> someone doesn't know the difference between Machina and MCIS? GTFO RIGHT NOW

[Lunatic]

SD is and always will be a sonic marvel.
MCIS's mix was cool at the time, but it hasn't aged nearly as well as SD.

[pump_up_ the_volume]

ShamanO, on 30 November 2011 - 08:28 PM, said:

:scatch:/> someone doesn't know the difference between Machina and MCIS? GTFO RIGHT NOW

It was sarcasm you moron. Get smarter.

This post has been edited by pump_up_ the_volume: 30 November 2011 - 09:39 PM

[ShamanO]

what do you think my caps were moron? get smarter!

[killer_in_me]

This thread is a giant fail.

MCIS is a sonic masterpiece.

[Rocket_Baby_Dolls]

solacematt, on 30 November 2011 - 03:22 PM, said:

What, were you expecting it to sound like Gish or SD? Quite a few reasons why the record sounds different - Different Producer, Engineers, Mixer, a lot of different gear tonally made it very different. They used pro Tools when it was still very new to recording as well.

This!

To everyone else, SD's mixing and mastering was all about getting the instruments perfect. MCIS was all about getting the feel and sound of a song, warts and all.

Over-produced compared to SD? http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8910/emotfrogout.gif

People need to start researching the interviews\talk\documentaries\etc... about the recording sessions, a lot is readily available from certain sources giving certain insights from the people involved directly in them.

[Mayfair]

ArticulateEric, on 30 November 2011 - 05:47 PM, said:

MCIS is the only record that sounds like a band playing imo.

thats cause it was mostly live off the floor. imagine that! :lick:/>

Lull, on 30 November 2011 - 06:59 PM, said:

Gish doesn't sound like a band to you? Huh?

no, cause it was only 2 guys meticulously doing take after take.

[ItsSoPringles]

to be honest i want to hear tales of a scortched earth without the distorted vocals

also anyone else feel mcis is the rawest album they have ever made

[solacematt]

pump_up_ the_volume, on 30 November 2011 - 08:06 PM, said:

I never said it was clipping.

Unintentional distortion doesn't necessarily mean clipping. But, who cares? We agree that there is distortion. I wonder if Billy ever listens to MCIS and thinks "Damn, we should clean that up a bit. Sounds too fuzzy."

Oops, I just looked at the disc... for fuck's sake, it IS Machina. Mellon Collie, Machina - they both start with an M! All these years, I had the wrong fucking cd. Thanks for setting me straight on that.

You just made this whole thread pretty funny.
Seriously though, people on this board need to take a pill and fucking relax. Everyone seems to have a stick up there ass, is mega insulting and gets all pissy because not everyone knows every tidbit of info about the band.
When you mentioned distortion though you probably should have been a bit more clear that you meant the guitars distortion and not your sound system clipping/distorting because of a bad mix.

[pump_up_ the_volume]

Mayfair, on 01 December 2011 - 06:55 AM, said:

no, cause it was only 2 guys meticulously doing take after take.

I wasn't debating the entire history of the Gish and MCIS recording sessions. But, thanks for filling me in. To me, there is too much distortion on MCIS. It might be true, because if you had read the other posts, you would see that some people agree with me :)/>

And, no Gish doesn't sound like 2 guys doing take after take. It sounds like a rock band. Maybe you're a wannabe producer who's over-analyzing the studio process, but it sure as hell sounds like a band to me.

ShamanO, on 30 November 2011 - 11:17 PM, said:

what do you think my caps were moron? get smarter!

Hey man, you gotta come up with some original material. Stop using mine.

killer_in_me, on 30 November 2011 - 11:38 PM, said:

This thread is a giant fail.

MCIS is a sonic masterpiece.

No, it's not a giant fail. It would be if everyone agreed with you, but they don't. Read the other posts, not everyone thinks it's a sonic masterpiece.

This post has been edited by pump_up_ the_volume: 01 December 2011 - 08:46 AM

[CZR]

MCIS sounds like a recording a tape of a tape of a tape lol

[frednirv632]

ItsSoPringles, on 01 December 2011 - 07:28 AM, said:

to be honest i want to hear tales of a scortched earth without the distorted vocals

also anyone else feel mcis is the rawest album they have ever made

it might be their least glossy album, but it's not 'raw' by any definition of the word. also, toase is great as is.

[pump_up_ the_volume]

CZR, on 01 December 2011 - 10:03 AM, said:

MCIS sounds like a recording a tape of a tape of a tape lol

Exactly!

[Deleted User]

Sure it'll be fine. Not really sure BC would allow someone to fuck this up. :shrug:/>

[Mayfair]

pump_up_ the_volume, on 01 December 2011 - 08:39 AM, said:

And, no Gish doesn't sound like 2 guys doing take after take. It sounds like a rock band.

sweet that's what it sounds like for you. :thumbsup:/>

doesnt change the fact that it was just BC/JC/BV at Smart. also, i wasn't replying to you. careful reading would have solved that problem.

[cleric]

pump_up_ the_volume, on 30 November 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:

I'm the most excited for MCIS reissue, because it can benefit a lot from remastering. Sound is too muddied and vocals need to be cleaned up. I've played it on high end speakers and equipment, and I can't believe Billy allowed it to be released like that. Too much unintended distortion, so I'm really hoping that someone will clean it up.

:nono:/> it's a good thing someone invented the internet, coz if you said that to my face...

:rant:/>

[killer_in_me]

pump_up_ the_volume, on 01 December 2011 - 08:39 AM, said:

No, it's not a giant fail. It would be if everyone agreed with you, but they don't. Read the other posts, not everyone thinks it's a sonic masterpiece.

It's a fail because as has already been said, the album is intended to be that way. So no I doubt it will be less distorted when it is remastered.

The prodution of this album is far better than on Zeitgeist or Machina. I think those are the albums in most need of some doctoring. There's some beautiful songs on Machina that have been killed by too much loudness and bad mixing. Wound is a good example. Love the song but the loudness gives me a headache.

[ShamanO]

pump_up_ the_volume, on 01 December 2011 - 08:39 AM, said:

I wasn't debating the entire history of the Gish and MCIS recording sessions. But, thanks for filling me in. To me, there is too much distortion on MCIS. It might be true, because if you had read the other posts, you would see that some people agree with me :)/>

And, no Gish doesn't sound like 2 guys doing take after take. It sounds like a rock band. Maybe you're a wannabe producer who's over-analyzing the studio process, but it sure as hell sounds like a band to me.



Hey man, you gotta come up with some original material. Stop using mine.

Touche

[V for Vergudo]

pump_up_ the_volume, on 30 November 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:

I'm the most excited for MCIS reissue, because it can benefit a lot from remastering. Sound is too muddied and vocals need to be cleaned up. I've played it on high end speakers and equipment, and I can't believe Billy allowed it to be released like that. Too much unintended distortion, so I'm really hoping that someone will clean it up.

Well, I hope not! This album sounds great to me and I would just leave it as it is. I just love the tone of those guitars and I would definitelly hate them to be turned into some glossy-shinny rocking guitarettes. 'Unintended distortion'? With all respect, I don't think so.

[pump_up_ the_volume]

V for Vergudo, on 01 December 2011 - 06:36 PM, said:

Well, I hope not! This album sounds great to me and I would just leave it as it is. I just love the tone of those guitars and I would definitelly hate them to be turned into some glossy-shinny rocking guitarettes. 'Unintended distortion'? With all respect, I don't think so.

No one agrees on the "unintended distortion" - so I guess we can all agree it's intended. Hey Billy less distortion on the remaster please.

Just listened to all three: MCIS, SD and Gish. As a whole, SD and Gish are better. MCIS would have been stronger as a single album. There are at least ten songs that could be dropped and no one would miss them, except maybe you Pumpkinheads :)/>

The vocals on Love and Tales of Scorched Earth could be remixed. I'm not asking for much, just tone down the megaphone effect, and bring up the treble.

But, damn the remasters sound good. Everything is more dynamic, especially the bass.

This post has been edited by pump_up_ the_volume: 01 December 2011 - 08:48 PM

[CourtJaster]

I think a lot of this comes down to personal taste.

Some people just don't care for the sound, so someone like Mayfair (just for example) can argue about how it was meant to be until they're blue in the face but that won't change anything.

I seems that the majority like the polished sound of Gish and SD and you can't argue with that.

[dreamover]

mcis is a totally different record. there's clean songs that sound real nice and there's distorted loud songs with walls of fuzz guitar and distorted vocals. that wasn't an accident. that's like saying my bloody valentine's loveless had horrible production cause they don't sound like red hot chili peppers.

i think mcis is perfect. it's never going to sound like siamese dream. butch vig and flood have two distint styles. billy had a completely different vision for mcis. love it or hate it. i think the remaster will be nice to hear. it might be punchier. but the mix isn't going to change at all.

[xXghost_childXx]

killer_in_me, on 01 December 2011 - 12:35 PM, said:

It's a fail because as has already been said, the album is intended to be that way. So no I doubt it will be less distorted when it is remastered.

The prodution of this album is far better than on Zeitgeist or Machina. I think those are the albums in most need of some doctoring. There's some beautiful songs on Machina that have been killed by too much loudness and bad mixing. Wound is a good example. Love the song but the loudness gives me a headache.

You MOTHERFUCKER! You said Machina was your favorite album! >:/

:p/>

[killer_in_me]

xXghost_childXx, on 01 December 2011 - 10:18 PM, said:

You MOTHERFUCKER! You said Machina was your favorite album! >:/

:p/>

I do like Machina. What I'm saying is the production isn't too great. It's too loud. I love listening to it in its entirety but sometimes it hurts me. I love all the things I've said before - the contrasts between certain tracks (eg GATGC - Wound), the grand stadium-esque feel etc. But I just wish it was a little bit gentler on the ear, is all.

[xXghost_childXx]

killer_in_me, on 01 December 2011 - 11:41 PM, said:

I do like Machina. What I'm saying is the production isn't too great. It's too loud. I love listening to it in its entirety but sometimes it hurts me. I love all the things I've said before - the contrasts between certain tracks (eg GATGC - Wound), the grand stadium-esque feel etc. But I just wish it was a little bit gentler on the ear, is all.

But its supposed to be that way.

[RottingApples]

"At the time, I was happy Siamese Dream was successful, but I worried it was too rigid because the band was very ferocious. I felt like we neutered the ferocity in search of perfection. But now Siamese Dream makes total sense to me. You listen to Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness and that's more The Pumpkins as we were, which was very dark. But now in retrospect, I love both because one's the ideal of the band, and the other is the reality of the band."

[Mayfair]

pump_up_ the_volume, on 01 December 2011 - 08:38 PM, said:

MCIS would have been stronger as a single album. There are at least ten songs that could be dropped and no one would miss them, except maybe you Pumpkinheads :)/>

wow.

peace out, thanks for stopping by. :thumbsup:/>

[killer_in_me]

Mayfair, on 02 December 2011 - 05:52 AM, said:

wow.

peace out, thanks for stopping by. :thumbsup:/>

Nice restraint!

[Mayfair]

killer_in_me, on 02 December 2011 - 06:33 AM, said:

Nice restraint!

I'm not as vicious as I used to be. no more legendary rants. there are other assholes here who can take up that flag. its time for these old bitter bones to retire.