[RottingApples]

manonkouch, on 14 May 2011 - 07:49 AM, said:

about As Rome Burns and he said it would not be recorded and that its not where his heads at.

He fucking strikes again. :nope:/>

Way to let us down again, BC.

[paulandgemm]

not too fussed about as rome burns to be honest,.

i think its ok (don't get how everyone freaks out about it), but the live version from the 20th anniversary shows is great and people would only complain about the production in the studio and how mikey isn't jimmy, so make do with that and look forward to something new.

[TwoHeadedBoy]

paulandgemm, on 14 May 2011 - 11:46 AM, said:

not too fussed about as rome burns to be honest,.

i think its ok (don't get how everyone freaks out about it), but the live version from the 20th anniversary shows is great and people would only complain about the production in the studio and how mikey isn't jimmy, so make do with that and look forward to something new.

I agree with this. ARB was a good song, but if he's not in a heavy frame of mind, who knows how disappointing the studio version would have been? I'm happy remember it as a kick ass live song that sounded huge and had passion, as opposed to what could have been.

That said, if he had recorded it back when he wrote it, it would have been amazing. Oh well, times change.

[lemonscure]

at least we have this. \m/ As Rome Burns!

[lemonscure]

I'll try to pretend it's a studio version :rolleyes:/>, and yeah, paulandgemm, maybe you're right, most of us would bitch that 'he ruined Rome in studio'. Because lets face it, with current production, drum sound, synth uses, Rome would suck.

[Bountiful_Wasteland]

He probably went home trying his hardest to figure out why we all like that song so damn much! :rolleyes:/>

[DeepPurple]

No As Rome Burns = F You Billy.

[scottytheoneandonly]

I imagine that if billy had decided against recording Song for a Son or Tom Tom we'd be hearing the same complaints.

The real problem is that the dude writes too many damn songs! :whattodo:/>

[ZivotSon]

ShamanO, on 14 May 2011 - 09:27 AM, said:

OMG I HATE YOU FREAKS

I was going to tweet the Scorpions vid and post that exact same thing
you guys really freak me out sometimes-stay the hell out of my thoughts

No way dude. Your mind is mine.

[Songwriter]

That's a shame. Wanted As Rome Burns, badly. :(/>
That youtube Viper Room video showed him having a great amount of fun playing ARB. If his head isn't "there", then perhaps there will not be anymore songs in the same vein. It's a shame because ARB showed great deal of real passion, flare and great raw energy. IMO, ARB had a great feel to it as most of the older songs did. It was brilliant song writing, lyrics and music structure. Pure raw power the whole way through with a good build up to a very good "get-off" guitar solo. Plus, it had a very memorable an-thematic shout/cry. "WE ARE THE NEW GODS!!!" What a wonderful break to a wonderfully relentlessly, ruthless-paced song. The energy of the song is undeniably awesome! Reminiscent of the great SP anger/rage songs of old. Too bad he couldn't have had just recorded it with the band just the way he and the band played it at that LA Viper Room. WOW!! Every single person I showed that video to absolutely LOVED the song! They all asked, "What album is that on?" "When did that song come out? I don't remember hearing it on the radio." And, "Awesome song. That's the stuff! I'll have to get it when it comes out". Then I told them that the song hasn't been recorded yet, that I knew of, and that I was pretty sure that it would be and that it would be on the TBK project. They all basically said something to the effect of, "Cool, let me know when it's out."
So, for artistic purposes alone, it's a shame it wasn't recorded for posterity's sake. But from the overall positive listener appreciation and seemingly obvious "easy sell" this song has, and not to be realized, well,... that's just about as much of a shame.

Can't tell Billy what to record or not record, and I am VERY happy for what he has given over his career, but this is a personal letdown to me and I know a handful of others I know that love the song and were heavily anticipating it's release. I would have GLADLY PAID for this song to be apart of the SP song collection I have, as I'm sure others would have. Ah well.

[HereIsNoY]

Didn't he say Owata and Tom Tom weren't going to be released either? If not on Oceania, I have little doubt it will be part of Teargarden down the road. It's too good of a song not to be.

[ShamanO]

Maybe once the Oceania water adventure is over ARB will come rising out of the sea and the "WE ARE THE NEW GODS" will be more fitting for this story journey thingy he/fans are on

[drewmorcom]

scottytheoneandonly, on 14 May 2011 - 01:27 PM, said:

I imagine that if billy had decided against recording Song for a Son or Tom Tom we'd be hearing the same complaints.

The real problem is that the dude writes too many damn songs! :whattodo:/>

Maybe if he stopped writing so many fucking songs he'd have time to actually record them! *shakes fist*

Im sad now....

[JPhox]

lemonscure, on 14 May 2011 - 12:06 PM, said:

at least we have this. \m/ As Rome Burns!

First time I've ever heard this song... holy moly.

[DeepPurple]

TBK needs a driving, energetic rock song. As Rome Burns was my hope for that. Lightning Strikes isnt all that rocky, and Freak is more of a pop song with fuzzy guitars. That song always got a great response at shows, and him just saying "its not where my head is at" is stupid. Get your head in the game Billy. Fans dont want Oceania to be 10 more songs of bubbly synth pop. You wonder why Teargarden hasnt worked?...its because Tom Tom is the only song to truly stand out from the bunch, and you just let that one pass by people with a whimper. He should have pushed that to radio stations with everything he had in him. As Rome Burns was another one of those songs that could have made a statement that he's just going to let pass by. The energy in that song was reminiscent of old Pumpkins, and while im not a nostalgia tripper, it could have helped get the band some much needed press.

But its ok, at least we get a wrestling themed Owata video :shiftyeyes:/>

[LostSoul]

Wow, can I smack him? PLEASE? Fucking Christ, Billy....

I knew he would do this...he always has..

[Fernando]

I'm sure that's cause Oceania is about new "new" songs.

[V_____]

Are you guys missing the part where we have like 50 recordings of As Rome Burns already?

I want songs I haven't heard before at this point.

[crepe]

V_____, on 15 May 2011 - 08:42 AM, said:

Are you guys missing the part where we have like 50 recordings of As Rome Burns already?

I want songs I haven't heard before at this point.

studio is better than live tho

[ShamanO]

and who has studio of As Rome Burns?

[lemonscure]

ShamanO, on 15 May 2011 - 12:42 PM, said:

and who has studio of As Rome Burns?

um.. nobody? cause it doesn't exist? but I would like to know, if those live uploads on youtube are the best ones, or are there any better live audio of ARB?

[purelunasea80]

am i the only one who thinks as rome burns sounds a whole lot closer to some more lunkheaded, lumberingly heavy zeitgeist shit than anything akin to "classic pumpkins"? see this is what drives me batty. so many people here--again, younger ones, i believe, mostly--want so badly to draw these parallels between the new and the old in defense of the new, things like "'as rome burns' kicks ass like 'bodies' did!" (no, it doesn't. IT ISN'T AS WELL-WRITTEN A SONG.) or 'owata' and 'that's the way' are great, sunny pop songs a la '1979' and 'today'!" (see above)...shit, when i first hears "mint car" by the cure, i wanted it to be "inbetween days" or "just like heaven" too...but it wasn't. no matter how much i like a band, i gotta be honest about everything they do.

and no matter how much some people simply want the pumpkins to "get back to their roots and rock the fuck out again" (which i have problems with anyway, because if you are a true SP fan, you don't consider their default setting to be "rawk", nor do you really even think they HAVE one default), a simple, dark guitar riff played with distortion and billy snarling a bit isn't a proper analogue to anything along the lines of "quiet", "fuck you", "TEG", "marquis", "lucky 13", "zero", or any of the other goth-metal barnburners they cranked out before 2000...because those songs weren't just about volume, attitude and aggression. they were great SONGS. which is the hallmark of SP, the fact that billy corgan is, IMO, the best songwriter of the past 20 years. that's what makes them better. SONGS. and "as rome burns" is not a good SONG. it's a riff that thrills for about 10 seconds.

unless, of course, you're a 16 year old kid from kansas with john cena posters on his wall. in that case, "as rome burns" is amazing...but then again, you probably also think godsmack, theory of a deadman and seether are awesome, too.

[zen50770]

purelunasea80, on 15 May 2011 - 06:37 PM, said:

am i the only one who thinks as rome burns sounds a whole lot closer to some more lunkheaded, lumberingly heavy zeitgeist shit than anything akin to "classic pumpkins"? see this is what drives me batty. so many people here--again, younger ones, i believe, mostly--want so badly to draw these parallels between the new and the old in defense of the new, things like "'as rome burns' kicks ass like 'bodies' did!" (no, it doesn't. IT ISN'T AS WELL-WRITTEN A SONG.) or 'owata' and 'that's the way' are great, sunny pop songs a la '1979' and 'today'!" (see above)...shit, when i first hears "mint car" by the cure, i wanted it to be "inbetween days" or "just like heaven" too...but it wasn't. no matter how much i like a band, i gotta be honest about everything they do.

and no matter how much some people simply want the pumpkins to "get back to their roots and rock the fuck out again" (which i have problems with anyway, because if you are a true SP fan, you don't consider their default setting to be "rawk", nor do you really even think they HAVE one default), a simple, dark guitar riff played with distortion and billy snarling a bit isn't a proper analogue to anything along the lines of "quiet", "fuck you", "TEG", "marquis", "lucky 13", "zero", or any of the other goth-metal barnburners they cranked out before 2000...because those songs weren't just about volume, attitude and aggression. they were great SONGS. which is the hallmark of SP, the fact that billy corgan is, IMO, the best songwriter of the past 20 years. that's what makes them better. SONGS. and "as rome burns" is not a good SONG. it's a riff that thrills for about 10 seconds.

unless, of course, you're a 16 year old kid from kansas with john cena posters on his wall. in that case, "as rome burns" is amazing...but then again, you probably also think godsmack, theory of a deadman and seether are awesome, too.

For the love of god don't go into the "well written" or "complexities" of pumpkins music. You're wrong, terrible wrong, and you should go back to your corner. Pumpkins songs are great songs to listen to, they are atmospheric, heavy, dark, bright, and everything in between, but they are not necessarily well written. Look at the structure of a song like Bodies, you think oh that's a heavy rocker from Mellon Collie, but I'm going to offer you a different perspective. It's called 16th notes...over...and over...and over...and over...and you get the message. Look at the bass lines of 90 percent of pumpkins music, guess what you're gonna see. Is it the root note of every chord? By golly I think it is. Is that something any band can do? Yes. Is it well written? About as well written as power chords over and over and over and over and over can be. I love pumpkins music, I really do, but when you take a step back and examine it you'll see that it is VERY repetitive. Then again the truth can be said of a lot of music out there, but don't say he's the greatest song writer of the past 20 years, that's just being silly.

[AlienCloak]

purelunasea80, on 15 May 2011 - 06:37 PM, said:

"as rome burns" is not a good SONG.

Yes, yes it is.

[LostSoul]

purelunasea80, on 15 May 2011 - 06:37 PM, said:

am i the only one who thinks as rome burns sounds a whole lot closer to some more lunkheaded, lumberingly heavy zeitgeist shit than anything akin to "classic pumpkins"? see this is what drives me batty. so many people here--again, younger ones, i believe, mostly--want so badly to draw these parallels between the new and the old in defense of the new, things like "'as rome burns' kicks ass like 'bodies' did!" (no, it doesn't. IT ISN'T AS WELL-WRITTEN A SONG.) or 'owata' and 'that's the way' are great, sunny pop songs a la '1979' and 'today'!" (see above)...shit, when i first hears "mint car" by the cure, i wanted it to be "inbetween days" or "just like heaven" too...but it wasn't. no matter how much i like a band, i gotta be honest about everything they do.

and no matter how much some people simply want the pumpkins to "get back to their roots and rock the fuck out again" (which i have problems with anyway, because if you are a true SP fan, you don't consider their default setting to be "rawk", nor do you really even think they HAVE one default), a simple, dark guitar riff played with distortion and billy snarling a bit isn't a proper analogue to anything along the lines of "quiet", "fuck you", "TEG", "marquis", "lucky 13", "zero", or any of the other goth-metal barnburners they cranked out before 2000...because those songs weren't just about volume, attitude and aggression. they were great SONGS. which is the hallmark of SP, the fact that billy corgan is, IMO, the best songwriter of the past 20 years. that's what makes them better. SONGS. and "as rome burns" is not a good SONG. it's a riff that thrills for about 10 seconds.

unless, of course, you're a 16 year old kid from kansas with john cena posters on his wall. in that case, "as rome burns" is amazing...but then again, you probably also think godsmack, theory of a deadman and seether are awesome, too.

Just for fun...(and to see what happens)...

As Rome Burns is better than Thru The Eyes Of Ruby. Billy is in his prime now. :jackyl:/>

[Lunatic]

I will 100% guarantee you there will be little if no synth on Oceania.

[Lunatic]

purelunasea80, on 15 May 2011 - 06:37 PM, said:

am i the only one who thinks as rome burns sounds a whole lot closer to some more lunkheaded, lumberingly heavy zeitgeist shit than anything akin to "classic pumpkins"? see this is what drives me batty. so many people here--again, younger ones, i believe, mostly--want so badly to draw these parallels between the new and the old in defense of the new, things like "'as rome burns' kicks ass like 'bodies' did!" (no, it doesn't. IT ISN'T AS WELL-WRITTEN A SONG.) or 'owata' and 'that's the way' are great, sunny pop songs a la '1979' and 'today'!" (see above)...shit, when i first hears "mint car" by the cure, i wanted it to be "inbetween days" or "just like heaven" too...but it wasn't. no matter how much i like a band, i gotta be honest about everything they do.

and no matter how much some people simply want the pumpkins to "get back to their roots and rock the fuck out again" (which i have problems with anyway, because if you are a true SP fan, you don't consider their default setting to be "rawk", nor do you really even think they HAVE one default), a simple, dark guitar riff played with distortion and billy snarling a bit isn't a proper analogue to anything along the lines of "quiet", "fuck you", "TEG", "marquis", "lucky 13", "zero", or any of the other goth-metal barnburners they cranked out before 2000...because those songs weren't just about volume, attitude and aggression. they were great SONGS. which is the hallmark of SP, the fact that billy corgan is, IMO, the best songwriter of the past 20 years. that's what makes them better. SONGS. and "as rome burns" is not a good SONG. it's a riff that thrills for about 10 seconds.

unless, of course, you're a 16 year old kid from kansas with john cena posters on his wall. in that case, "as rome burns" is amazing...but then again, you probably also think godsmack, theory of a deadman and seether are awesome, too.

Good god, do you ever shut up? :rofl:/>

[orchidaii]

http://www.dirtydirtysheets.com/wp-content/gallery/aaw-2011-05-13/DSC02953.JPG

I think Billy is getting fashion inspiration from these wrestling people...I'm scared :(/>

[LostSoul]

Metal...studded...belt...wha? The fuck? With a flannel, PEACOAT, scarf and black old man pants nonetheless?

Okay. Billy needs help...

[ShamanO]

i'm more concerned about the guy wearing the cut off almost daisy dukes and short skimpy shirt...he could be enticing Billy to wear those :sick:/>

[V for Vergudo]

purelunasea80, on 15 May 2011 - 06:37 PM, said:

am i the only one who thinks as rome burns sounds a whole lot closer to some more lunkheaded, lumberingly heavy zeitgeist shit than anything akin to "classic pumpkins"? see this is what drives me batty. so many people here--again, younger ones, i believe, mostly--want so badly to draw these parallels between the new and the old in defense of the new, things like "'as rome burns' kicks ass like 'bodies' did!" (no, it doesn't. IT ISN'T AS WELL-WRITTEN A SONG.) or 'owata' and 'that's the way' are great, sunny pop songs a la '1979' and 'today'!" (see above)...shit, when i first hears "mint car" by the cure, i wanted it to be "inbetween days" or "just like heaven" too...but it wasn't. no matter how much i like a band, i gotta be honest about everything they do.

and no matter how much some people simply want the pumpkins to "get back to their roots and rock the fuck out again" (which i have problems with anyway, because if you are a true SP fan, you don't consider their default setting to be "rawk", nor do you really even think they HAVE one default), a simple, dark guitar riff played with distortion and billy snarling a bit isn't a proper analogue to anything along the lines of "quiet", "fuck you", "TEG", "marquis", "lucky 13", "zero", or any of the other goth-metal barnburners they cranked out before 2000...because those songs weren't just about volume, attitude and aggression. they were great SONGS. which is the hallmark of SP, the fact that billy corgan is, IMO, the best songwriter of the past 20 years. that's what makes them better. SONGS. and "as rome burns" is not a good SONG. it's a riff that thrills for about 10 seconds.

unless, of course, you're a 16 year old kid from kansas with john cena posters on his wall. in that case, "as rome burns" is amazing...but then again, you probably also think godsmack, theory of a deadman and seether are awesome, too.

Apart from his jealous-of-youth rant, I agree with this guy.
ARB is not that good and I think 'Mint Car' is closer to 'Inbetween Days' than ARB is to Bodies or God or Fuck you.

[adamdanger!]

ShamanO, on 15 May 2011 - 12:42 PM, said:

and who has studio of As Rome Burns?

I think they mean studio versions are better than live ones. Disagree.

[OBgene]

SaturnsHalo, on 15 May 2011 - 07:50 PM, said:

I will 100% guarantee you there will be little if no synth on Oceania.

....really? you'll 100% guarantee us?

[afroguy10]

purelunasea80, on 15 May 2011 - 06:37 PM, said:

--again, younger ones, i believe, mostly--

Not this again.

[lemonscure]

I remember reading purelunasea80 post about Rome, in which he said, he is not sure, if ARB moves him ,if he likes it. But he didn't say 'it sucks' while to other songs, he did. But now.. Oh well. I enjoy it probably even more than The Everlasting Gaze, for example. Yes, it sounds more like a Zeitgeist songs, but I can hear similarities to MCIS heavy songs too (especially 2008 version of Rome). Rome is not better than Bodies or some other heavy track of Mellon Collie. No way. But for me it's a good song. You say it's wrong to say 'it's a good song'. But that's what I think and I will write what I think and what I want to write. I won't be an asslicker to some oldschool SP fan. I fuckin love that song. And no age 16 john cena shit won't change that.

[ShamanO]

adamdanger!, on 16 May 2011 - 01:52 AM, said:

I think they mean studio versions are better than live ones. Disagree.

I know...I was just being a smartass

also I don't care if ARB is released or not-it's old now

[adamdanger!]

ShamanO, on 16 May 2011 - 09:35 AM, said:

also I don't care if ARB is released or not-it's old now

Awwwwww... but I wanted me some snarly geetarz...

[noblegeorge]

I just want Oceania to be really fucking good.

[RottingApples]

I'll take all the old songs in the world if it means no more Widows and Spangleds. I don't understand people's correlations with old being bad. A good song's a good song, regardless of when it was written.

[scottytheoneandonly]

noblegeorge, on 16 May 2011 - 09:53 AM, said:

I just want Oceania to be really fucking good.

You can't always get what you want.

[adamdanger!]

scottytheoneandonly, on 16 May 2011 - 10:03 AM, said:

You can't always get what you want.

But if you try sometime...

[AlienCloak]

Just because it's not better than Bodies doesn't mean it's not good!

[crepe]

adamdanger!, on 16 May 2011 - 10:23 AM, said:

But if you try sometime...

You might find...

[ShamanO]

adamdanger!, on 16 May 2011 - 09:40 AM, said:

Awwwwww... but I wanted me some snarly geetarz...

well then keep your fingers crossed he does it with a new song.
I'll just sit back and wait for the songs to come out LATER in the year :/
/me dislikes knowing no new music until fall-feels so empty