[LostSoul]

Exactly as the title states. Many fans (including myself) note a definite shift in feel since the reformation, and how it correlates to the 2000 & earlier material. Without actually BRINGING the old vs new argument in here (oh the new doesn't compare, the old is better, there was this magic blah blah blah), which songs from 2007-present actually make you feel the same vibe, or at least a similar one? Which ones either successfully capture the 'SP Magic' for you, or at least come quite close? Can be studio and/or live.

For me:

Studio

Stellar-this one sounds the most in-line with SP as they died with Machina. It would almost fit right in for me, and I get VERY familiar vibes. Love the synths, as they are actually utilized properly here. The atmospherics in this song are...stellar (LOL). There is no question in my mind...THIS...is a Pumpkins song.

Tarantula-one of the few instances where post-reformation Billy has not only shown the SP trademark loud-soft dynamics in a song, but displayed it perfectly. Vox are a bit off, but more energetic than most songs on Zeitgeist. The guitar work, the drums, the bridge...perfect.

The Rose March-Cut the lalala's, and we're golden. The lyrics have that 'Corgan whimsy' to them, the arrangement is very nice, and instrumentally, it bleeds Pumpkins. Love the part where Billy croons, "I'll lay roses at your feet, till you decide that there is something great...in you" as Jimmy's graceful precision in the bridge lifts Billy to new heights.

Sunkissed-a sweet Corgan acoustic, in traditional Pumpkins flare. Heartfelt lyrics. Nice melody, despite Billy's dry vox. Keeper.

Zeitgeist (title track)-see above. I still think opening the album with this leading into Doomsday Clock would have been both an obscure, and awesome move.

A Song For A Son-although it met its demise in the studio, this track still has some 'post-humus' value. The drums are horrendous, though the rest is excellent. The guitar work is great, with one of the best solos Billy has ever put to tape. The arrangement may be all over the place, but it works. It evokes this aura, this vibe that takes me somewhere else. Much like the Pumpkins used to. Unfortunately, this is the only song here that does that, but it was refreshing to hear. It was the perfect choice for the 1st song on Teargarden in the sense that it opened the doors to a potential concept and recurring sound/theme in the album. Though I despise Widow Wake My Mind & Asshole Planes, the first EP at least shared in some consistency throughout the songs. The lyrics here are largely misunderstood in my eyes, and dismissed as being stupid & childish. When you couple the fact that Billy wrote this song about the kid he always wanted but never had, then the words make sense in their context. It is meant to play upon the innocent naiveté of a child, with dreams of becoming something so farfetched as an astronaut. I will forever hold the 2008 version in higher regard, but this is one song I cannot completely hate. I always thought the keys in the middle section before Mike's 'epic drum part' (:lol:/>) sounded eerily like a jack-in-the-box being wound up.

Teargarden Theme-very typical Pumpkins instrumental. Like MCIS and the circus had a baby and the good traits outweighed the bad ones. It sounds very grandiose, and I would have preferred it if this had led straight into ASFAS as an album opener. Not a string of garbage singles.

Cottonwood Symphony-the elusive demo song where Billy sings normal in 2010. His vocals here are amazing, and further proof that he can still sing like that. That he can still hold that much heart in his voice. Love the lyrics, and from what I gather, it relates to Billy's desire to move on and leave behind his burdens. His mistakes, his bad choices, and most of all, the fans & critics weighing him down. I almost get a joking intention from it, where he eludes to the idea that when he is gone, he will be respected but he won't be here. From his p.o.v., people just don't 'get' it. So he is, in essence, saying that he will hold to what is dear to him about the band, while the opposition will soon let go and not enjoy the fruits of his work. I could be wrong, and I am far from completely pro-Billy, but that is a message I can absolutely respect. "When they come after me, I won't be found, no", "Unlock the box, the key is yours. The treasures you forgot, I will preserve."

The Celestials-this one is most obviously a rip-off of old SP, crossing Disarm with grunge thematics. I can't help but like it, though. And might I add, the copy cat mission was a success. Loud-soft dynamics, great bass work, and feels enough like SP. Good song either way.

Violet Rays-Billy's best vocal performance on an album in years. Just stunning. The synth intro, the exceedingly clean guitar tone and minimalistic playing that somehow works. Nothing complex about the song; it is just merely an extremely solid song. The lyrics are interesting, albeit odd. Not entirely deep, either. Still, the intention is to stir emotion, and he succeeded in doing so. Billy wears his heart on his sleeve in this track, and I note that it is almost universally considered the best track on the album. Even by those who despise the album. Rightfully so. An emotional powerhouse in the truest Pumpkin sense. Bleed that heart, Billy.

Pinwheels-this song has that lovely lullaby sound to it that BC used to delve into. Add nursery rhyme lyrics morphing into a denial that a love cannot be lost, laser guitar streaks trading atmospherics, and a brilliantly vibrant chorus. The final vocal line, "'Cause what gets lost, if I've got you" segues perfectly and ironically into...

Oceania-this song is brilliant. One of Billy's most direct Cure influences portrayed in a Pumpkins song. The mellotron intro leading into the solemn echoes of the opening guitar part...then the opening line, which is so absurdly simple, yet unbelievably powerful: "No one can love you, 'cause no one can free you. Lovers can't touch you, 'cause lovers might reach you, yeah." The 1st third of the song ALONE makes it worthwhile, but then the middle acoustic section is so beautifully executed. The final portion boasts prog-rock frenzy, in the vein of Porcupine Tree if it ever was. The drumming could be better, but Mike's (only) highlight on the album lies within this last part. Namely, the drum fade-in after the acoustic section. The trading guitar solos are music to my ears. The second official 'sad' song Billy has penned with the new band. Highlight of the record.

Pale Horse-haunted, tortured lyrics and visions of his late mother as she lost her battle with disease. The most haunting composition he's created since the reformation. It has that intricateness and impending doom to it as Billy dances and plays with darkness, culminating in him begging the fabled horse to return to him. Whether to come for him, or bring his mother back, nobody knows.

Wildflower-typical SP closing song. Blows Pomp out of the water for me. The lyrics are vague, inquisitive, and heartfelt. The vocals in this song are great. The backup vocals shine here, once again. Sweet melody, and a guitar solo worthy of the SP name.



Okay. That list took longer to type than I expected, and I came up with more songs than I expected. Still, 14 songs out of the 48 he's put out since the reformation isn't THAT good. At the same time, that doesn't mean the other songs are bad by any means. I love songs like United States, My Love Is Winter and Owata (dodges tomatoes), etc. Just...I do not get that feel from them. Same with other songs from Oceania. Although Inkless, The Chimera and Quasar may 'sound' Siamese Dream-ish, that doesn't make them have that magic. They sound forced (though I do enjoy Inkless quite a bit). Like he was intentionally throwing a bone to old fans, hoping they'd take the bait. Songs like Oceania, Pale Horse and Violet Rays tread on similar emotional ground as older material, but they are not derived from a specific source. They came from the heart; from that place, and Billy gave them their own personalities rather than rely on a tried-and-true formula.

Anyway, that is all I have to say for now. Sorry for the lengthy post. Anyone else? :)/>

[indisposed]

i find this magic stuff grating (its popped up hard in the last week, that's what she said) but if you're talking about something 'connecting' on first listen without any intellectual rationalizing, i can answer this. and with due respect, fuck the 07-12 restrictions. i don't allow myself to get boxed in cause i'm an ARTIST (corgan rhetoric 4 life).

mary star of the sea
baby, lets rock
all things change
now (and then)
pretty, pretty STAR
mini
that's the way
united states (fuck tha police)
spangled
inkless

[_Revolution_Blues]

Good thread idea, would agree with all of those you listed :thumbsup:/>

I would add:

Lightning Strikes: Doesnt necessarily sound like old SP but i love really love this song, best from tbk for me. It has a certain magic too it, just sounds like the new band has gelled and are making great music together and having fun. Thats the magic

Ma Belle: Sounds like a mellon collie era song, simple but effective lyrics, brilliant drumming and a good heavy, clean guitar sound reminiscent of MCIS. When that riff kicks in....mmmm

Freak: Same as Lightning Strikes, it has grown on me loads recently

Glissandra: I hated this song when Oceania came out, hated it. But now its right up there with the best reunion songs. I think this song couldnt fit on any other album, its magical in its own right caused by the new band and captures the essence of the new era perfectly

Neverlost: A sad and different song on Zetigeist, adds some familiarity on that mess of an album. The only song with true emotion in it

United States: a monster of a song that i dont think could fit on any other album but the magic is that unbelievable musical connection between Billy and Jimmy, would be a masterpiece of a song if it wasnt for the shitty production

[LostSoul]

indisposed, on 07 March 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

i find this magic stuff grating (its popped up hard in the last week, that's what she said) but if you're talking about something 'connecting' on first listen without any intellectual rationalizing, i can answer this. and with due respect, fuck the 07-12 restrictions. i don't allow myself to get boxed in cause i'm an ARTIST (corgan rhetoric 4 life).

mary star of the sea
baby, lets rock
all things change
now (and then)
pretty, pretty STAR
mini
that's the way
united states (fuck tha police)
spangled
inkless

Excuse me. I meant this all in good fun...not ripping songs apart and giving the rallying cry that I am a master of music theory and know what is best, like some people. Just what has that special something to it that drew you to the Pumpkins in the first place. But ANYWAY,

My apologies.

[indisposed]

"don't ever say you're sorry, son" - the walking dead - wayne gretzky - michael scott

[LostSoul]

:lol:/>

Well. THAT was unexpected.

[frednirv632]

indisposed, on 07 March 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

"don't ever say you're sorry, son" - the walking dead - wayne gretzky - michael scott

right in the feels
:(/>

[RobUtting]

The stuff that I feel has a magic (whether it's "the" magic you talk about, I don't know) of some kind about it (07-12) is:
Song For A Son
Stitch In Time
Fellowship
Freak
Tom Tom
Owata
Panopticon
Celestials
My Love Is Winter
One Diamond, One Heart
Pale Horse
That's The Way (My Love Is)

I know a lot of it might be too poppy for some people, but I really do love the new stuff..

[thirty-three-and-a-third]

LostSoul, on 07 March 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Exactly as the title states. Many fans (including myself) note a definite shift in feel since the reformation, and how it correlates to the 2000 & earlier material. Without actually BRINGING the old vs new argument in here (oh the new doesn't compare, the old is better, there was this magic blah blah blah), which songs from 2007-present actually make you feel the same vibe, or at least a similar one? Which ones either successfully capture the 'SP Magic' for you, or at least come quite close? Can be studio and/or live.

For me:

Studio

Stellar-this one sounds the most in-line with SP as they died with Machina. It would almost fit right in for me, and I get VERY familiar vibes. Love the synths, as they are actually utilized properly here. The atmospherics in this song are...stellar (LOL). There is no question in my mind...THIS...is a Pumpkins song.

Tarantula-one of the few instances where post-reformation Billy has not only shown the SP trademark loud-soft dynamics in a song, but displayed it perfectly. Vox are a bit off, but more energetic than most songs on Zeitgeist. The guitar work, the drums, the bridge...perfect.

The Rose March-Cut the lalala's, and we're golden. The lyrics have that 'Corgan whimsy' to them, the arrangement is very nice, and instrumentally, it bleeds Pumpkins. Love the part where Billy croons, "I'll lay roses at your feet, till you decide that there is something great...in you" as Jimmy's graceful precision in the bridge lifts Billy to new heights.

Sunkissed-a sweet Corgan acoustic, in traditional Pumpkins flare. Heartfelt lyrics. Nice melody, despite Billy's dry vox. Keeper.

Zeitgeist (title track)-see above. I still think opening the album with this leading into Doomsday Clock would have been both an obscure, and awesome move.

A Song For A Son-although it met its demise in the studio, this track still has some 'post-humus' value. The drums are horrendous, though the rest is excellent. The guitar work is great, with one of the best solos Billy has ever put to tape. The arrangement may be all over the place, but it works. It evokes this aura, this vibe that takes me somewhere else. Much like the Pumpkins used to. Unfortunately, this is the only song here that does that, but it was refreshing to hear. It was the perfect choice for the 1st song on Teargarden in the sense that it opened the doors to a potential concept and recurring sound/theme in the album. Though I despise Widow Wake My Mind & Asshole Planes, the first EP at least shared in some consistency throughout the songs. The lyrics here are largely misunderstood in my eyes, and dismissed as being stupid & childish. When you couple the fact that Billy wrote this song about the kid he always wanted but never had, then the words make sense in their context. It is meant to play upon the innocent naiveté of a child, with dreams of becoming something so farfetched as an astronaut. I will forever hold the 2008 version in higher regard, but this is one song I cannot completely hate. I always thought the keys in the middle section before Mike's 'epic drum part' (:lol:/>/>/>) sounded eerily like a jack-in-the-box being wound up.

Teargarden Theme-very typical Pumpkins instrumental. Like MCIS and the circus had a baby and the good traits outweighed the bad ones. It sounds very grandiose, and I would have preferred it if this had led straight into ASFAS as an album opener. Not a string of garbage singles.

Cottonwood Symphony-the elusive demo song where Billy sings normal in 2010. His vocals here are amazing, and further proof that he can still sing like that. That he can still hold that much heart in his voice. Love the lyrics, and from what I gather, it relates to Billy's desire to move on and leave behind his burdens. His mistakes, his bad choices, and most of all, the fans & critics weighing him down. I almost get a joking intention from it, where he eludes to the idea that when he is gone, he will be respected but he won't be here. From his p.o.v., people just don't 'get' it. So he is, in essence, saying that he will hold to what is dear to him about the band, while the opposition will soon let go and not enjoy the fruits of his work. I could be wrong, and I am far from completely pro-Billy, but that is a message I can absolutely respect. "When they come after me, I won't be found, no", "Unlock the box, the key is yours. The treasures you forgot, I will preserve."

The Celestials-this one is most obviously a rip-off of old SP, crossing Disarm with grunge thematics. I can't help but like it, though. And might I add, the copy cat mission was a success. Loud-soft dynamics, great bass work, and feels enough like SP. Good song either way.

Violet Rays-Billy's best vocal performance on an album in years. Just stunning. The synth intro, the exceedingly clean guitar tone and minimalistic playing that somehow works. Nothing complex about the song; it is just merely an extremely solid song. The lyrics are interesting, albeit odd. Not entirely deep, either. Still, the intention is to stir emotion, and he succeeded in doing so. Billy wears his heart on his sleeve in this track, and I note that it is almost universally considered the best track on the album. Even by those who despise the album. Rightfully so. An emotional powerhouse in the truest Pumpkin sense. Bleed that heart, Billy.

Pinwheels-this song has that lovely lullaby sound to it that BC used to delve into. Add nursery rhyme lyrics morphing into a denial that a love cannot be lost, laser guitar streaks trading atmospherics, and a brilliantly vibrant chorus. The final vocal line, "'Cause what gets lost, if I've got you" segues perfectly and ironically into...

Oceania-this song is brilliant. One of Billy's most direct Cure influences portrayed in a Pumpkins song. The mellotron intro leading into the solemn echoes of the opening guitar part...then the opening line, which is so absurdly simple, yet unbelievably powerful: "No one can love you, 'cause no one can free you. Lovers can't touch you, 'cause lovers might reach you, yeah." The 1st third of the song ALONE makes it worthwhile, but then the middle acoustic section is so beautifully executed. The final portion boasts prog-rock frenzy, in the vein of Porcupine Tree if it ever was. The drumming could be better, but Mike's (only) highlight on the album lies within this last part. Namely, the drum fade-in after the acoustic section. The trading guitar solos are music to my ears. The second official 'sad' song Billy has penned with the new band. Highlight of the record.

Pale Horse-haunted, tortured lyrics and visions of his late mother as she lost her battle with disease. The most haunting composition he's created since the reformation. It has that intricateness and impending doom to it as Billy dances and plays with darkness, culminating in him begging the fabled horse to return to him. Whether to come for him, or bring his mother back, nobody knows.

Wildflower-typical SP closing song. Blows Pomp out of the water for me. The lyrics are vague, inquisitive, and heartfelt. The vocals in this song are great. The backup vocals shine here, once again. Sweet melody, and a guitar solo worthy of the SP name.



Okay. That list took longer to type than I expected, and I came up with more songs than I expected. Still, 14 songs out of the 48 he's put out since the reformation isn't THAT good. At the same time, that doesn't mean the other songs are bad by any means. I love songs like United States, My Love Is Winter and Owata (dodges tomatoes), etc. Just...I do not get that feel from them. Same with other songs from Oceania. Although Inkless, The Chimera and Quasar may 'sound' Siamese Dream-ish, that doesn't make them have that magic. They sound forced (though I do enjoy Inkless quite a bit). Like he was intentionally throwing a bone to old fans, hoping they'd take the bait. Songs like Oceania, Pale Horse and Violet Rays tread on similar emotional ground as older material, but they are not derived from a specific source. They came from the heart; from that place, and Billy gave them their own personalities rather than rely on a tried-and-true formula.

Anyway, that is all I have to say for now. Sorry for the lengthy post. Anyone else? :)/>/>/>

i agree with a good 75% of everything you said here. i agree with a lot of what you say, at least in terms of music analysis and SP...which annoys me, because I can't stand you personally. i would take out stellar, celestials, violet rays, pinwheels and oceania (which i don't heat the cure in, by the way, and i would bet i am probably as big a cure fan as is on this board)...and i'd add certain non-official things, like the spirits stuff, baby, and especially the rite of spring, which is my second-favorite thing he's done after rose march. and i do quite like spangled, though it maybe doesn't have the "magic."

incidentally, whatever somewhat-negative comments you made in your intro about what YOUR poll was about versus what other posts you didn't like were about...that was an allusion to me, right?

and it's "alludes" to, not "eludes", and it can't be "vox are"--vox is singular.

indisposed, on 07 March 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

i find this magic stuff grating (its popped up hard in the last week, that's what she said) but if you're talking about something 'connecting' on first listen without any intellectual rationalizing, i can answer this. and with due respect, fuck the 07-12 restrictions. i don't allow myself to get boxed in cause i'm an ARTIST (corgan rhetoric 4 life).

mary star of the sea
baby, lets rock
all things change
now (and then)
pretty, pretty STAR
mini
that's the way
united states (fuck tha police)
spangled
inkless

but the whole POINT is that it's 07-present, the universal presumption being that, through zwan and TFE, bc was still making very high-quality music with little creative fall-off, and that 2007 and on is where the precipitous decline began.

[LostSoul]

Oh sweet fucking christ. Your POINT? :rolleyes:/>

[dudehitscar]

Teargarden theme
Stitch in time
Owata
Cottonwood symphony
Panotipcon
Pale horse
One diamond one heart
Pinwheels
Most of Oceania song.
Ink less

[thirty-three-and-a-third]

LostSoul, on 07 March 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Oh sweet fucking christ. Your POINT? :rolleyes:/>/>

where did you not see a point, that you would like me to provide one for you?

[indisposed]

i don't see zwan as being overly different from pumpkins mk 2. the intent is the same- replicating a monolith by tracing its shadow.

i agree with you that 'spirits in the sky' was successful, but on the basis that it strove to be something else. it was like thefutureembrace in that regard, a project proved worthy of its creators legacy as a direct result of getting out of its way. as much as i like parts of zeitgeist and quite like oceania, they tread water the same way mary star of the sea did.

NOW, i dont think spirits recaptured any (intangible, unexplainable, cockSHIT) magic. but! i think if you use some of that extra magic that's floating around in here to conjure a pumpkins discography that runs the same until 2000, and then jumps from 'thefutureembrace' to 'spirits in the sky', you might not feel like dying when talking to someone in person about current billy.

[LostSoul]

thirty-three-and-a-third, on 07 March 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

where did you not see a point, that you would like me to provide one for you?

Point IS...
















...you're a twat.

[thirty-three-and-a-third]

LostSoul, on 07 March 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

Point IS...
















...you're a twat.

it really is funny how i got run out of here for supposedly being so awful, meanwhile i never said things like this, and you do, and you go on unmolested.

i'm STILL not taking the bait, much as i want to. please leave me alone.

[LostSoul]

If you so choose to remain oblivious, then I'll give you an honest fucking answer then.

You bitch & moan when people attack you. People such as myself become the aggressor towards you, and you can't fathom why. Here is why:

You judge others immensely, negating their opinions and personal tastes because they don't coincide with the preferences of your 'seasoned musician', 'hipper-than-thou', diva ass. You deny it all you want; everybody knows your trends. Don't pick fights when you are unwilling to take the flack for it.

What're you, almost 40? And you're begging for mercy on an Internet message board that you could so easily walk away from. You feign victim when your controversial and obnoxious squalls you call posts get criticized, yet YOU openly rally against everybody's opinion. Ultimately, when the backlash hits, you ask, "WHY LORD JEZUSS WHAT HAVE I DONE TO DESERVE DISSSS?? MAKE IT STOPPP?!"

You could so easily avert this, but you insist on being stubborn. It's not the hardest thing in the world to keep your opinions to yourself. I can only imagine how fascinating it is to communicate with you in person: "Hey, now puppies are pretty cute. I love puppies." "NO."

I don't know for sure if it was you, but at the Terminal 5 show in 2011, I saw someone who looked just like you by the merch booth. Some kid almost lost his shit over said guy and threatened to beat the fuck out of him over something he said to him. If I remember right that you attended that show, and this guy looked JUST like you, and said something so infuriating that the kid wanted to bash his face in, then that pretty much means it was you.

Maybe you need to work on your social skills, cupcake. Because it seems that you're enticing fire from both dimensions of the world you reside in.

[thirty-three-and-a-third]

LostSoul, on 08 March 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

If you so choose to remain oblivious, then I'll give you an honest fucking answer then.

You bitch & moan when people attack you. People such as myself become the aggressor towards you, and you can't fathom why. Here is why:

You judge others immensely, negating their opinions and personal tastes because they don't coincide with the preferences of your 'seasoned musician', 'hipper-than-thou', diva ass. You deny it all you want; everybody knows your trends. Don't pick fights when you are unwilling to take the flack for it.

***Cite ONE example of me "judging immensely" (not a very elegant choice of words) or picking a fight. I don't do that...it's actually you who is as oversensitive as you say I am. And I never suggested that my musicianship made my opinions more valid; I only mentioned it in the context of knowing the difference between a real album and a comp.***

You could so easily avert this, but you insist on being stubborn. It's not the hardest thing in the world to keep your opinions to yourself. I can only imagine how fascinating it is to communicate with you in person: "Hey, now puppies are pretty cute. I love puppies." "NO."

***I shouldn't HAVE to "avert it." You should just be able to decide you don't like me and the way I operate, and simply steer clear of me. I said this same thing last time around, and my philosophy is never going to change, because it makes perfect sense. I have been dealing with this shit literally since I was a kindergartener, and even then I felt the same thing: If you don't like me, that's fine. But it doesn't give you the right to abuse me or bully me--something I am not doing to anyone--or to try and "get rid of me", which is essentially tantamount to fascism--eliminating (living, breathing) elements you don't enjoy,


I don't know for sure if it was you, but at the Terminal 5 show in 2011, I saw someone who looked just like you by the merch booth. Some kid almost lost his shit over said guy and threatened to beat the fuck out of him over something he said to him. If I remember right that you attended that show, and this guy looked JUST like you, and said something so infuriating that the kid wanted to bash his face in, then that pretty much means it was you.

***You went through this whole insane spiel last time, too, so you must be very obsessed with it. But I don't go around fucking with people. I have no reason to say anything off-color to anyone, ever, inless they fuck with me first. Then all bets are off. I WAS near the Merch table for a bit...I met a girl named Haley who is a huge SP fan, she had this odd little bust of Billy that I posed for a pic with...I small-talked with a young couple about the Cure "Reflections" shows that were coming up not long thereafter...I have no problem socializing. I do seem to remember some unhinged weirdo saying something bizarre around me and a bunch of us looking at him like he was out of his fucking head, which he clearly was. And I've never gotten the "fuck beaten out of me" in my life. But if you are really fixated on trying to make it happen, I would be glad to give you the chance.


Maybe you need to work on your social skills, cupcake. Because it seems that you're enticing fire from both dimensions of the world you reside in.

***If you think you are in any position to give lessons on social skills, given the nasty, confrontational, offputting tone YOU exude, perhaps you need to talk to someone yourself.

[alan]

You should both have it out in the ring. Billy will referee. Just don't use locally produced furniture as weapons to beat each other with, I've heard that really pisses him off

[thirty-three-and-a-third]

alan, on 08 March 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

You should both have it out in the ring. Billy will referee. Just don't use locally produced furniture as weapons to beat each other with, I've heard that really pisses him off

I just wish this person would simply back off. I have no interest in going at it with him, just wanna have stimulating convo about music.

[indisposed]

do you guys feel like all of this magic talk is as a result of you two losing your magic as a couple?

[LostSoul]

thirty-three-and-a-third, on 08 March 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

***If you think you are in any position to give lessons on social skills, given the nasty, confrontational, offputting tone YOU exude, perhaps you need to talk to someone yourself.

Notice I only do it to you? I'm pretty sociable and easy going with most of the other posters here. You just happen to piss me off.

And this is YOUR example of stimulating convo about music, then?

"Hot damn, Daphne Descends is an incredible song."

"No. It isn't."

"Well, I think it is. I like it."

"No, you younger fans don't understand the connection to the Pumpkins music because you weren't there. You can't see what I CAN see. My ears are seasoned, yours are not. End of story. You're wrong. Daphne Descends really isn't a good song."

indisposed, on 08 March 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

do you guys feel like all of this magic talk is as a result of you two losing your magic as a couple?

Totally had to re-read that post. It is a distinct possibility. :lol:/>/>

This post has been edited by LostSoul: 08 March 2013 - 09:34 PM

[thirty-three-and-a-third]

LostSoul, on 08 March 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

Notice I only do it to you? I'm pretty sociable and easy going with most of the other posters here. You just happen to piss me off.

And this is YOUR example of stimulating convo about music, then?

"Hot damn, Daphne Descends is an incredible song."

"No. It isn't."

"Well, I think it is. I like it."

"No, you younger fans don't understand the connection to the Pumpkins music because you weren't there. You can't see what I CAN see. My ears are seasoned, yours are not. End of story. You're wrong. Daphne Descends really isn't a good song."


well, if i had ever said anything remotely like that, you'd have yourself a good point. AGAIN, the only time i referenced my musicianship and/or age--and i NEVER use the word "seasoned", which would be a major douche move--was with respect to understanding why a compilation isn't a proper album, an informational argument that had nothing to do with taste.

i'm going to ask you once more to please leave me alone. then i am just going to fucking ignore you, which is what i should have done from jump. you're a seriously unpleasant, shit-stirring pain in the ass.



Totally had to re-read that post. It is a distinct possibility. :lol:/>/>/>

[LostSoul]

:mwah:/>

I think I've made my point. Carry on, almighty snail. I shall honor your request. :lol:/>

[alan]

Was thinking about the original Q.

Ma belle.
God and country.
Tarantula.
Stitch in time.
Tom tom.
Lightning strikes.
Quasar.

Celestials and spangled deserve special mention but not quite there.

Also if we're being honest, ma belle, stitch in time , quasar and maybe lightning strikes are the only tracks id have on the same playlist as eye or soma for example (this playlist would be 'favourite pumpkins tunes' or something)

[LostSoul]

Favorite Pumpkins tunes potentials? Hmm...

I don't feel that they'd crack my top 30 even...but I would add these to an 'era' compilation mix for sure. You know, my favorites from SD era, few from MCIS, Adore, Machina, etc:

Stellar
A Song For A Son
Violet Rays
Oceania

Mods, can we sweep this whole argument away from this topic, please? It is a bit cluttered now, and I've no desire to retain its contents.

This post has been edited by LostSoul: 09 March 2013 - 01:41 PM

[alan]

LostSoul, on 09 March 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Favorite Pumpkins tunes potentials? Hmm...

I don't feel that they'd crack my top 30 even...but I would add these to an 'era' compilation mix for sure. You know, my favorites from SD era, few from MCIS, Adore, Machina, etc:

Stellar
A Song For A Son
Violet Rays
Oceania

a few things;

1. it would be a big playlist! they wouldn't necessarily have to be in the top 30, although quasar and stitch would, for now

2. "favourite" is very much a short term thing, it's dubious (very dubious) whether any of the tracks i listed would be in a favourite tracklist in 10 years time, the way eye still is 16 years on. i'm just picking eye as an example because i love it. on the same note, my top ten favourite albums has 4 or 5 that never go away, and 4 or 5 that have been different down the years. Adore, or pornography by the cure, or the fragile by NIN, have never gone away for me. the everlasting blink by bent however, has definitely slipped down the pecking order.

3. maybe the tracklist would be called pumpkins songs that capture the magic.

[LostSoul]

alan, on 09 March 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

a few things;

1. it would be a big playlist! they wouldn't necessarily have to be in the top 30, although quasar and stitch would, for now

2. "favourite" is very much a short term thing, it's dubious (very dubious) whether any of the tracks i listed would be in a favourite tracklist in 10 years time, the way eye still is 16 years on. i'm just picking eye as an example because i love it. on the same note, my top ten favourite albums has 4 or 5 that never go away, and 4 or 5 that have been different down the years. Adore, or pornography by the cure, or the fragile by NIN, have never gone away for me. the everlasting blink by bent however, has definitely slipped down the pecking order.

3. maybe the tracklist would be called pumpkins songs that capture the magic.

1. Agreed. Seeing how it would stretch from Pre-Gish all the way to Machina, with some 2007-2012 tidbits. Be interesting to make just a BC playlist. From Pre-Gish (or The Marked if you somehow enjoyed that) all the way to new, including Zwan & all of BC solo. Could even add some JC & JI in there, should you so desire.

2. Also agreed. My favorite songs were Zero & I of the Mourning for years, and they just recently dwindled down my list. Still love them, but yeah. The Fragile...good ass call on that. That is my second favorite album of all time, next to MCIS. :cheers:/>

3. I like the idea. Be riiiiiight back....

[RobUtting]

LostSoul, on 09 March 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Favorite Pumpkins tunes potentials? Hmm...

Tom Tom, That's The Way, Pale Horse and Freak would definitely be in mine, were it a top 30-or-so. If it were, say, a top 50, Stitch/Celestials/MLIW/1D1H would probably get into that too.

[thirty-three-and-a-third]

LostSoul, on 09 March 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Favorite Pumpkins tunes potentials? Hmm...

I don't feel that they'd crack my top 30 even...but I would add these to an 'era' compilation mix for sure. You know, my favorites from SD era, few from MCIS, Adore, Machina, etc:

Stellar
A Song For A Son
Violet Rays
Oceania

Mods, can we sweep this whole argument away from this topic, please? It is a bit cluttered now, and I've no desire to retain its contents.

...says the guy who is 100% responsible for said argument.

[alan]

Oh shit I forgot pale horse. Thats got the most magic of all from 07! Definitely on the list.

A random thought - nothing since 07 has the magic of soot and stars

[LostSoul]

thirty-three-and-a-third, on 09 March 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

...says the guy who is 100% responsible for said argument.

Did you NOT read my pm, then?

[thirty-three-and-a-third]

alan, on 09 March 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

Oh shit I forgot pale horse. Thats got the most magic of all from 07! Definitely on the list.

A random thought - nothing since 07 has the magic of soot and stars

You're right. But the point--or MY point, anyway, as one of those old, curmudgeonly SP diehards--is that you could replace Soot and Stars with DOZENS of songs (Thru the Eyes of Ruby, Disarm, Stand Inside Your Love, Muzzle, Hummer, For Martha, Galapagos, Starla, Luna, Snail, Wound, Soma, Tonight Tonight, Drown) and your statement would still be as accurate. I can't imagine how anyone could reasonably argue that anything released since 2007 is of the same quality and, YES, "magic", as those songs and many more like them--except, maybe, The Rose March, which, to me, has the same capacity to reduce the listener to a puddle of tears. There are a few others since then that are quite affecting, but none that get to that very special place. None, to paraphrase Billy talking about his "competition" in an interview years ago, that have "all those 10 other factors that make you look in your drink and go, "Fuck!"

[dreams of glass]

Isn't it pretty subjective to say what is "magic" and what isn't?

OK, so "magic" songs from 2007-2012:

Doomsday Clock
(Come On) Lets Go!
Ma Belle
The Rose march
SuperChrist
FOL (yep)
A Song For A Son
Astral Planes
Freak USA
Spangled
Lightning Strikes
Quasar
The Celestials
My Love Is Winter
The Chimera
Inkless

[thirty-three-and-a-third]

dreams of glass, on 10 March 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

Isn't it pretty subjective to say what is "magic" and what isn't?

OK, so "magic" songs from 2007-2012:

Doomsday Clock
(Come On) Lets Go!
Ma Belle
The Rose march
SuperChrist
FOL (yep)
A Song For A Son
Astral Planes
Freak USA
Spangled
Lightning Strikes
Quasar
The Celestials
My Love Is Winter
The Chimera
Inkless

do superchrist, freak, fol, lightning strikes, quasar, come on let's go and astral planes give you a similarly amazing, special, better-than-most-music OMG WOW feeling to what many SP fans say they get from mayonaise, ruby, tonight, sheila, stand inside your love, galapagos, and disarm?