[standing]

MonteLDS, on 17 April 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

Crestfallen.com Friday the 13th Interview with Billy Corgan
http://www.crestfall...h-billy-corgan/

For anyone interested in learning more about the Lucky 13 project, I believe this interview will shed some additional light on it.

wow. that is the greatest Billy interview ive ever heard. it was so awesome hearing him candidly talk to the fans about alt versions and those sorts of things that he's been going through in the archives. I want to comment, but there's just too much to go over!

ShamanO, on 17 April 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

maybe the Rubano tapes needs to be the 1st thing out? He just keeps on talking about those.



Spoiler Alert: Adore reissue is not set to come out until Record Store day next year :(/>

too big. project needs to start with a smaller item or series of smaller items that are obvious sales. once a fan base is built up around the project, THEN it can move on to larger or more obscure things.

This post has been edited by standing: 17 April 2012 - 08:12 PM

[BitterRootOfSelf]

Im ok with pure digital releases.. I think that is the best way to get the ball rolling.. If that catches on then just maybe you could put out some physical releases.. But for now i would suggest some free digital releases to everyone on the mailing list, say 2 songs and a video per month..these people are already invested in the band so throw them some free songs and keep up interest. again, these songs would be free where quality is not necessarily and issue. Also be sure to put a free track up every now and then on the SP front webpage to keep interest of the general public. Next you can start compiling several songs to be sold in several packages from each era. Say for the siamese dream era... one digital package is all unheard unreleased songs from SD, one package is alternate takes of songs from SD, one package is live songs from SD, one package is a concert video.. do this with every era of SP music. Sell each package for say 10 bucks. Make a link to all these packages for each era for digital download in various file types which are neatly listed and accessible from the front page.

Maybe hook up people buying from SPRC with concert presales or shirts or posters, etc.

What do you all think about that?

[Drevpile]

So... any sign of the lucky13 then; I'm seeing very distinct themes emerging here....

[ShamanO]

MonteLDS, on 17 April 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

Let the Lucky 13 Team take the lead.

Excusez moi for asking questions

Drevpile, on 17 April 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

So... any sign of the lucky13 then; I'm seeing very distinct themes emerging here....

Monte, Marie, that articulateeric guy, Juliana, RocketBabyDolls, Mayfair

that's 6.

[davidp2007]

I get the feeling that the number of people involved is not necessarily 13 as I originally assumed and probably lot of us assumed before. But it sounds like they are putting together a diverse group. I know that RocketBabyDolls for example has a lot of archival footage he's tracked down, a lot of stuff I didn't realize existed and from talking to him, I know that he is a very knowledgeable guy about some of the stuff that is out there. So I think having people like him and others that bring different knowledge bases to the table, it's a step in the right direction.

standing, on 17 April 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

wow. that is the greatest Billy interview ive ever heard. it was so awesome hearing him candidly talk to the fans about alt versions and those sorts of things that he's been going through in the archives. I want to comment, but there's just too much to go over!



too big. project needs to start with a smaller item or series of smaller items that are obvious sales. once a fan base is built up around the project, THEN it can move on to larger or more obscure things.

Right, The Rubano Tapes seems like something Billy is really interested in putting out and it's a great idea, but I think it's too large scale of a project to start out with. It sounded like he had recorded a lot of the earlier Pumpkins shows as well as other stuff, but did he record the Chicago 21 show that just Billy and James played before D'arcy joined? If they had a recording of that show, it might be cool to release that as an earlier release, but maybe that's too obscure; and if it is part of the Rubano tapes, I am not sure if releasing it would detract from later sales of a box set or if it would help gauge the interest for such a box set.

Quiet and Others Songs, remastered might be interesting. But I also remember Billy mentioning something about not wanting to put tracks where he is just bsing lyrics. But now that it's been hours since I listened to the interview, I don't recall if he meant that in general or just specifically not wanting to put that out on reissues, as opposed to SPRC material. There is quite a bit of the bullshit lyrics going on in that in that demo tape. I am not sure how much the quality can be improved on those demos, but I know when listening to them, it's very hard to hear the songs properly at times.

BitterRootOfSelf, on 17 April 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

Im ok with pure digital releases.. I think that is the best way to get the ball rolling.. If that catches on then just maybe you could put out some physical releases.. But for now i would suggest some free digital releases to everyone on the mailing list, say 2 songs and a video per month..these people are already invested in the band so throw them some free songs and keep up interest. again, these songs would be free where quality is not necessarily and issue. Also be sure to put a free track up every now and then on the SP front webpage to keep interest of the general public. Next you can start compiling several songs to be sold in several packages from each era. Say for the siamese dream era... one digital package is all unheard unreleased songs from SD, one package is alternate takes of songs from SD, one package is live songs from SD, one package is a concert video.. do this with every era of SP music. Sell each package for say 10 bucks. Make a link to all these packages for each era for digital download in various file types which are neatly listed and accessible from the front page.

Maybe hook up people buying from SPRC with concert presales or shirts or posters, etc.

What do you all think about that?

Those all sound like good ideas. I am not sure if there are plans for this, but I imagine there is, but the SPRC part of the site as it stands now would need an overhaul, to make everything more accessible than just a playlist in the middle of the page and to help things be more organized for the efforts of the Lucky 13 and the SPRC. It's not up to the Lucky13 group obviously, but I think the navigation on the website in general needs to be retooled to allow easier navigation, because as it stands now, there is not even a proper link to the message board. The Gish and Siamese Dream links could even be under a drop down menu for the 'store' link.

Anyways, back to the topic, I think idea of concert presales, shirts, and posters as incentives would be great. I think even Billy mentioned in the interview saying something about as a possible extra for purchasing something, people could get a t-shirt with it or something like that.

[Drevpile]

Is mayfair 'officially' involved? Excellent.

[ChrisHill]

Some ideas for Kickstarter "tiers" of contribution for the Rubano tapes. This would of course be accompanied by a full description of the Rubano tapes, audio samples, and a description of the relative audio quality of each item:

$10 - Digital download of any single Rubano item in flac or mp3 format
$50 - All 40-50 hours of Rubano material in 256kbps mp3, mailed to you on a flash drive
$100 - All 40-50 hours of Rubano material in flac, mailed to you on a flash drive (Is this practical given the size of flac files and the cost of larger flash drives? Not sure)
$300 - Autographed, hand-numbered box set of all 40-50 hours of Rubano material on CD
$500 - Autographed, hand-numbered box set of all 40-50 hours of Rubano material on vinyl, flash drive with flac copies of all material, participate in moderated 30-minute private videochat with Billy Corgan about the Rubano material/pre-Gish era.

This would all be contingent upon the fixed and variable costs, of course. The fixed cost is the mixing, mastering, whatnot that would have to be done regardless of what format the music is released in. Variable costs would be the flash drives/pressing and packaging costs for each item.

Chris Hill

[Rocket_Baby_Dolls]

ShamanO, on 17 April 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Excusez moi for asking questions


Monte, Marie, that articulateeric guy, Juliana, RocketBabyDolls, Mayfair

that's 6.

Nice guesses. I'm not part of it though and i have no idea who is, it would be awesome though. It's nice to be so highly thought of :love:/>

[Rocket_Baby_Dolls]

Personally it's hard to judge on the material in the vaults compared to what the casual fan would want to hear. The wealth of demos that is actually out there we're pretty lucky to have, with a few tapes cropping up on ebay, if i remember correctly the Gravity Demos I was sent to someone by accident. I'm uploading the "666" tape at the moment and re-reading the notes, this is definently a drop of the ball with MTV as the footage was never meant to be seen, as much as it interests many and it's a rare glimpse of a few unreleased songs, a good part of it is scratch vocals and a few riff noodlings. I can see Billy's reluctance to offer such material for money.

Personally, my wants for release will differ vastly to most and a great deal i know probably wouldn't even be considered. I think with this project it's a great oppurtunity to have a say in future archive releases and i can't wait to see it come alive. It would be nice to see some of the more well known songs that remain unreleased come about aswell like Pale Scales, LMGTWTY (Adore era, even if Billy doesn't like it, it's been high up in the fans wishlist for a decade), etc...

I think alternate takes of songs would only be viable if there's a significant difference, i know Billy mentioned Tales Of A Scorched Earth, there may be 9 or 10 takes, but if there exists an acoustic instrumental demo that's in good shape then i think it would warrant attention. Billy mentioned somewhere about a 'gospel' version of Jupiters Lament with all the members singing, which again, is different enough, if there's a good take of it then it's something different enough that people may want to hear.

It would be cool if individual shows would be made available too and sold via USB like the US tour from last year.

Just a couple of quick thoughts for now...

This post has been edited by Rocket_Baby_Dolls: 18 April 2012 - 04:17 AM

[whywontyoulisten]

Listen to how the crowd roars in appreciation at 05.14; I just want to be able to SEE Billy while he's playing these incredible solos.

Speed Kills, Pittsburg Arising! 17th April 1999

[Sophie]

I've been off for a few days and as one always abides by Murphy's law the whole Lucky 13 thing has been anounced during that time (dammit!). Consequently I've just spent the last hour reading the 9 pages of discussion of this thread.
First of all, no need to say that I am excited by the project. I think several good ideas have arised from this discussion. Here I will not talk about very specific releases since I guess some of them have already been clearly identified (pre-Gish material, Viper room concert, etc), and because I can't think of an item that has been listed here that I wouldn't pay for. I'm more focusing here on the releasing process.

• I really like the idea of a pledge campaign or a kicstarter, or whatever you want to call this (raised by standing if I remember well). I am one of those stupid people who actually enjoy physical releases but I am also aware of the production costs. So I guess a good way to have everyone satisfied is to offer a digital download of several full shows for a couple of bucks each and then when a show has shown to be very popular you can launch the production process while knowing approximately how much release you have to press. Moreover, as it has also been stated before I like the idea of keeping people interacting with the band and not waiting for a release. I was personally somehow thrilled by some pledge campaigns (like The Cold and Lovely pledge campaign to name but a few).
  
  
• The first release with a Lucky 13 label should indeed be something not to obscure (again I agree with standing). Although I obviously crave this type of material I guess the first release should be something successful, i.e. something the maximum of people would love to see/hear. The idea of a Vieuphoria II (III? IV?) has been raised (by Arthur if I remember well and to be honest it has been on my wishlist for a while). I think this would be a great item to start with, make the project commercially viable and then we'll go with rarities. Many people have enjoyed the DVDs coming along with Gish and SD reissues after all so why not release a Vieuphoria II. Moreover this compilation could be a teaser for forthcoming full shows releases. Imagine this: you release Vieuphoria II, then you put all the correponding full shows to download within a pledging system and the most popular ones get a physical audio and video release.
  
  
• Now let's speak of something that hasn't been talked about here. Even though it would seem early to talk about this kind of thing I would like to draw people's attention on the shipping cost. As I told you I'm the kind of person who likes physical releases, I'm also a vinyl lover and I frequently buy records in the US and get them imported via mail. The reason why I'm talking about this really early is because if I have to import something from the US I hope it is not going to be made out of marble if you see what I mean... Moreover you have to take this into account when pricing the items. I mean the price of the shipping is often higher than the price of the item itself, so you have to consider what this is really going to cost to the average international buyer if you want to reach this public otherwise he might feel a little reluctant to finalize his purchase.

Cheers everyone :happy:/>

[Dusty]

ChrisHill, on 18 April 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

Some ideas for Kickstarter "tiers" of contribution for the Rubano tapes. This would of course be accompanied by a full description of the Rubano tapes, audio samples, and a description of the relative audio quality of each item:

$10 - Digital download of any single Rubano item in flac or mp3 format
$50 - All 40-50 hours of Rubano material in 256kbps mp3, mailed to you on a flash drive
$100 - All 40-50 hours of Rubano material in flac, mailed to you on a flash drive (Is this practical given the size of flac files and the cost of larger flash drives? Not sure)
$300 - Autographed, hand-numbered box set of all 40-50 hours of Rubano material on CD
$500 - Autographed, hand-numbered box set of all 40-50 hours of Rubano material on vinyl, flash drive with flac copies of all material, participate in moderated 30-minute private videochat with Billy Corgan about the Rubano material/pre-Gish era.

This would all be contingent upon the fixed and variable costs, of course. The fixed cost is the mixing, mastering, whatnot that would have to be done regardless of what format the music is released in. Variable costs would be the flash drives/pressing and packaging costs for each item.

Chris Hill

Brilliant. Seconded. I think the price of the digital download may need to be a little higher, but I think that is very reasonable. Nothing has to be produced until people have had an opportunity to pledge for items for a month or two, and then theoretically you can ensure a profit. Digital downloads should always be available from the outset--I for one am not highly interested in the Rubano tapes, and so I wouldn't want to spend more than fify dollars on them. However, I would spend ten to fifty dollars on a digital release, and if they do not mail flash drives (which would be fine with me), they could pretty quickly cover the cost of the hosting (I believe that the Cold and Lovely digital downloads and cds were by far the most popular item). That can in turn fund the more expensive pieces.

Additionally, I think a CD "Best Of the Rubano Tapes" would be a real winner, with the highest quality distinct songs all compiled for the more casual fan who still makes his way to the O-Board.

Anyways, this is 100% the road we should be moving down.

[werideatdusk]

It would be amazing to have at least one show, I don't care which, released as a 2- or 3-LP set. Never heard live SP on vinyl. Might be a pipe dream at this point.

[Mayfair]

Drevpile, on 18 April 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Is mayfair 'officially' involved? Excellent.

nope :(/>

davidp2007, on 18 April 2012 - 12:28 AM, said:

but did he record the Chicago 21 show that just Billy and James played before D'arcy joined?

SDB in the archives.

[ChrisHill]

Dusty, on 18 April 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

However, I would spend ten to fifty dollars on a digital release, and if they do not mail flash drives (which would be fine with me), they could pretty quickly cover the cost of the hosting (I believe that the Cold and Lovely digital downloads and cds were by far the most popular item). That can in turn fund the more expensive pieces.

I proposed flash drives because they don't require the overhead and initial setup time/costs of setting up a secure website infrastructure for downloads. If this infrastructure is already set up and usable by the band for something like this, the flash drive is unnecessary, but if this really is going to be a mostly-volunteer, fan-run thing as Billy described in the interview (outside of the mixing, mastering, and pressing), I'm thinking what's cheapest and easiest for amateurs to set up.

Priority 1 for the Lucky 13 team should be getting a handle on what the non-negotiable costs are exactly and what resources are available for the project. Is there a mixing guy/gal already? How much does he/she cost per hour? How long does it take to mix an hour of recorded audio? Ditto with mastering. Is there a company the band uses for short-print vinyl/CD pressing (like with the TGbK EPs)? How much does it cost to press 50, 100, or 500 of each item? Using this information, they can then set the Kickstarter "target" based on whatever those costs are, plus distribution (either digital or physical or both). Not sure if the entire team is in contact with Billy or just Monte, but either way the most competent business/math person on the team should be put in charge of this and they can write up a detailed description of what they need that Monte/whoever can pass on to Billy/band management.

Chris Hill

[standing]

ChrisHill, on 18 April 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

Some ideas for Kickstarter "tiers" of contribution for the Rubano tapes. This would of course be accompanied by a full description of the Rubano tapes, audio samples, and a description of the relative audio quality of each item:

$10 - Digital download of any single Rubano item in flac or mp3 format
$50 - All 40-50 hours of Rubano material in 256kbps mp3, mailed to you on a flash drive
$100 - All 40-50 hours of Rubano material in flac, mailed to you on a flash drive (Is this practical given the size of flac files and the cost of larger flash drives? Not sure)
$300 - Autographed, hand-numbered box set of all 40-50 hours of Rubano material on CD
$500 - Autographed, hand-numbered box set of all 40-50 hours of Rubano material on vinyl, flash drive with flac copies of all material, participate in moderated 30-minute private videochat with Billy Corgan about the Rubano material/pre-Gish era.

This would all be contingent upon the fixed and variable costs, of course. The fixed cost is the mixing, mastering, whatnot that would have to be done regardless of what format the music is released in. Variable costs would be the flash drives/pressing and packaging costs for each item.

Chris Hill

intriguing idea to release it very tiered like that; especially with a very expensive top bracket that could even include a few minutes of billy's time. it may take thinking like that to make the expensive tiers work; cause if someone can buy the whole set in digital for 50 or 100, the person who will put in 500 needs something more than vinyl. but also, who would want 50hrs of vinyl?

Rocket_Baby_Dolls, on 18 April 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

Personally it's hard to judge on the material in the vaults compared to what the casual fan would want to hear. The wealth of demos that is actually out there we're pretty lucky to have, with a few tapes cropping up on ebay, if i remember correctly the Gravity Demos I was sent to someone by accident. I'm uploading the "666" tape at the moment and re-reading the notes, this is definently a drop of the ball with MTV as the footage was never meant to be seen, as much as it interests many and it's a rare glimpse of a few unreleased songs, a good part of it is scratch vocals and a few riff noodlings. I can see Billy's reluctance to offer such material for money.

Personally, my wants for release will differ vastly to most and a great deal i know probably wouldn't even be considered. I think with this project it's a great oppurtunity to have a say in future archive releases and i can't wait to see it come alive. It would be nice to see some of the more well known songs that remain unreleased come about aswell like Pale Scales, LMGTWTY (Adore era, even if Billy doesn't like it, it's been high up in the fans wishlist for a decade), etc...

I think alternate takes of songs would only be viable if there's a significant difference, i know Billy mentioned Tales Of A Scorched Earth, there may be 9 or 10 takes, but if there exists an acoustic instrumental demo that's in good shape then i think it would warrant attention. Billy mentioned somewhere about a 'gospel' version of Jupiters Lament with all the members singing, which again, is different enough, if there's a good take of it then it's something different enough that people may want to hear.

It would be cool if individual shows would be made available too and sold via USB like the US tour from last year.

Just a couple of quick thoughts for now...

def agree with some stuff here. the only things that really need to be focused on here are distinctive alt versions and things. repetative "takes" are just gonna bog everything down. there must be a lot of good new songs and cool alt versions in there; so to focus on the 3rd take of rocket would be a time waster. I know in the interview Billy said that all that's left is grey area stuff, cause all the great stuff has already come out; but I don't think that's true. adore/machina era LOVER is a great song, that I'm sure could be cleaned up for a good release. those are the types of things that should be focused on- things that could be cleaned upnand released in a pisces-type compilation, that sounds professional and good.

Sophie, on 18 April 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

I've been off for a few days and as one always abides by Murphy's law the whole Lucky 13 thing has been anounced during that time (dammit!). Consequently I've just spent the last hour reading the 9 pages of discussion of this thread.
First of all, no need to say that I am excited by the project. I think several good ideas have arised from this discussion. Here I will not talk about very specific releases since I guess some of them have already been clearly identified (pre-Gish material, Viper room concert, etc), and because I can't think of an item that has been listed here that I wouldn't pay for. I'm more focusing here on the releasing process.

• I really like the idea of a pledge campaign or a kicstarter, or whatever you want to call this (raised by standing if I remember well). I am one of those stupid people who actually enjoy physical releases but I am also aware of the production costs. So I guess a good way to have everyone satisfied is to offer a digital download of several full shows for a couple of bucks each and then when a show has shown to be very popular you can launch the production process while knowing approximately how much release you have to press. Moreover, as it has also been stated before I like the idea of keeping people interacting with the band and not waiting for a release. I was personally somehow thrilled by some pledge campaigns (like The Cold and Lovely pledge campaign to name but a few).
  
  
• The first release with a Lucky 13 label should indeed be something not to obscure (again I agree with standing). Although I obviously crave this type of material I guess the first release should be something successful, i.e. something the maximum of people would love to see/hear. The idea of a Vieuphoria II (III? IV?) has been raised (by Arthur if I remember well and to be honest it has been on my wishlist for a while). I think this would be a great item to start with, make the project commercially viable and then we'll go with rarities. Many people have enjoyed the DVDs coming along with Gish and SD reissues after all so why not release a Vieuphoria II. Moreover this compilation could be a teaser for forthcoming full shows releases. Imagine this: you release Vieuphoria II, then you put all the correponding full shows to download within a pledging system and the most popular ones get a physical audio and video release.
  
  
• Now let's speak of something that hasn't been talked about here. Even though it would seem early to talk about this kind of thing I would like to draw people's attention on the shipping cost. As I told you I'm the kind of person who likes physical releases, I'm also a vinyl lover and I frequently buy records in the US and get them imported via mail. The reason why I'm talking about this really early is because if I have to import something from the US I hope it is not going to be made out of marble if you see what I mean... Moreover you have to take this into account when pricing the items. I mean the price of the shipping is often higher than the price of the item itself, so you have to consider what this is really going to cost to the average international buyer if you want to reach this public otherwise he might feel a little reluctant to finalize his purchase.

Cheers everyone :happy:/>

something I noticed in here. I typically am not interested in vieuphoria-type compilation video releases. however, as you say, could be a good way to determine other full releases. maybe make a comp off best of that covers the main Siamese tour. then use voting (advertise the polling thread in the package), to determine which full show people want.

[ChrisHill]

standing, on 18 April 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

but also, who would want 50hrs of vinyl?

I have no idea :)/> I'm not a vinyl person, but vinyl people keep saying things like "I wish I could get [x] on vinyl", and it's considered a "collectors item".

standing, on 18 April 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

something I noticed in here. I typically am not interested in vieuphoria-type compilation video releases. however, as you say, could be a good way to determine other full releases. maybe make a comp off best of that covers the main Siamese tour. then use voting (advertise the polling thread in the package), to determine which full show people want.

It's worth pointing out that Billy said in the interview how compilations are inherently more difficult than single shows/items because someone has to sift through everything and do that evaluation. If there was a Lucky 13 member who lived in Chicago that Billy trusted and who would be willing to spend hours and hours going through stuff to find the "best" tracks then I guess it's possible, but of the 2 people we know of who are part of Lucky 13 at least one of them does not meet the criteria of "lives in Chicago". This should be Priority 2 of the Lucky 13 Team, find out what kind of access they have to the catalog and the archives themselves (possibly through Quinto if he's still on the project) and assess what's realistic in terms of choosing specific items.

Chris Hill

[standing]

I want to throw out my idea for the first release. I think this idea is kinda balls-out, but at the same time it would prove billy's/lucky13s dedication to releasing all this stuff. also Billy said in the interview he wants it all out in 3 or so years, so its time to get the ball rolling, and there's no real reason to hold back or try to trickle things out. to kick this off, thhey should do a compilation Cd and/or download of a compilation of every unreleased studio gish song. as many cds as that will fill, whatever. basically, they should look at what all studio recordings there are, figure out what all songs that haven't been released are, pick a definitive version for each, clean them up into a pisces-level rarities compilation, and put them together and put them out. almost any fan would pay top dollar for a collection of that nature. also, music news may pick up a story like that, because its almost historical- "Billy corgan to put out every unreleased song from the bands first album-era". they could send it to amazon and itunes even as a complete companion to gish and Pisces remasters. from there, a similar release could cover distinctive alt versions; songs like the psychadelic version of suffer on the gish box. versions that are. remarkably their own, even alt versions of new songs that would have come out on the release right before it (the unreleased songs comp). from there, a definitive gish era acoustic release. you see the pattern. anyway I want to reiterate that the unreleased gish songs comp would be the great start to this series. and it would keep people excited and happy to purchase things until the eventual Siamese unreleased tracks comp came out and so on! the gish unreleased songs comp should cover any song not on gish, tripping through the stars, Pisces, Pisces reissue bonus disc, rotten apples, or sprc. any tracks that only exist on obscure singles or soundtracks should also be collected up here.

ChrisHill, on 18 April 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

I have no idea :)/> I'm not a vinyl person, but vinyl people keep saying things like "I wish I could get [x] on vinyl", and it's considered a "collectors item".



It's worth pointing out that Billy said in the interview how compilations are inherently more difficult than single shows/items because someone has to sift through everything and do that evaluation. If there was a Lucky 13 member who lived in Chicago that Billy trusted and who would be willing to spend hours and hours going through stuff to find the "best" tracks then I guess it's possible, but of the 2 people we know of who are part of Lucky 13 at least one of them does not meet the criteria of "lives in Chicago". This should be Priority 2 of the Lucky 13 Team, find out what kind of access they have to the catalog and the archives themselves (possibly through Quinto if he's still on the project) and assess what's realistic in terms of choosing specific items.

Chris Hill

that's true. but I get the impression from the interview that someone is going through everything. Billy said he spent 8 hours over 2days going through things for approval. it indicates that someone else had already spent untold hours whittling the pile down to 8hrs worth.

[Whicker]

ChrisHill, on 18 April 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

Some ideas for Kickstarter "tiers" of contribution for the Rubano tapes. This would of course be accompanied by a full description of the Rubano tapes, audio samples, and a description of the relative audio quality of each item:

$10 - Digital download of any single Rubano item in flac or mp3 format
$50 - All 40-50 hours of Rubano material in 256kbps mp3, mailed to you on a flash drive
$100 - All 40-50 hours of Rubano material in flac, mailed to you on a flash drive (Is this practical given the size of flac files and the cost of larger flash drives? Not sure)
$300 - Autographed, hand-numbered box set of all 40-50 hours of Rubano material on CD
$500 - Autographed, hand-numbered box set of all 40-50 hours of Rubano material on vinyl, flash drive with flac copies of all material, participate in moderated 30-minute private videochat with Billy Corgan about the Rubano material/pre-Gish era.

This would all be contingent upon the fixed and variable costs, of course. The fixed cost is the mixing, mastering, whatnot that would have to be done regardless of what format the music is released in. Variable costs would be the flash drives/pressing and packaging costs for each item.

Chris Hill

Why the hell should Flac or waves cost twice as much as mp3? it takes just as long converting the flacs and no time at all to convert the .wav...

Like i said before, if you idiots want mp3s MAKE YOUR OWN!

Also flash drives are expensive comparatively to a dvd, and with 40 hours of content you would need 16gig+ flash drives. If were trying to keep costs down then the flash drives are a bad idea.

[Sophie]

standing, on 18 April 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

I typically am not interested in vieuphoria-type compilation video releases.

Well it was on my wish list for two reasons:

• because I love the crazy interludes
  
• because I didn't know at the time that one day I could be granted with full shows! ;)/>

I'm like you I could go four hours of Pumpkins on stage, but I guess not everyone is ready to buy 10+ different full length shows which is why -as you noticed- I suggested this could be some sort of reference compilation for casual fans, and some sort of teaser for Pumpkinheads. Even if I knew that the full length shows are going to be released later on I could go for a DVD with funny interludes and that would give me a hint of what's going to be released next. Plus if not every show is released after that (or only audio, or if the whole project fails) we would still have this collection of videos.
I was also thinking of this type of compilation because several people in this thread mentioned that something needs to be released ASAP to make the whole project credible. Someone has to have thought of giving a sequel to Vieuphoria, there's no way the question has never been under consideration, so some material may even exist (or am I completely wrong on that point?).

Of course I guess the second release with a Lucky 13 label should be something that crazy fans like you and I crave, and consequently should be some "never-heard-of" material, or long time expected performance needing to be released in HQ.

[timewind]

Please NO RELEASES in mp3 only (like SPRC songs) !!! lossless always should be a standard

[Mayfair]

ChrisHill, on 18 April 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

(possibly through Quinto if he's still on the project)

Frank is no longer involved hands on wise, but he still lurks.

[TalkingHead]

Mayfair, on 18 April 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Frank is no longer involved hands on wise, but he still lurks.

I lol'd.

[ryan8765]

Well I don't post here very often, but after hearing that interview and how SPRC is community driven I feel like I should throw in my 2 cents, even though it may get over looked. Also I'm sorry if anything I bring up has already been discussed to death.

Distribution:
I've been an invested consumer for quite sometime and I like to collect things as well. When I first heard about this project there was mention about making it a subscription based service. Maybe different tiers of distribution or something. I may have missed if that was brought up in the thread earlier but that is something I would go for. When the Mars Volta released bedlam and Goliath they sold a flash drive that was periodically updated with content. I thought that was a really cool idea and i liked the extra content.

Content:
As far as what is released, Billy had said in the interview that releasing different versions of the same songs may not have enough demand. I agree with that unless the songs were an interesting mix or something like he described. Also a good mix/performance live show in its entirety from each era would be cool. I wouldn't purchase every live show or anything like that. I missed out on a lot of good shows. So having one from each era would be plenty. I don't think releasing everything is realistic or desirable because part of the charm of this band is what may be floating around that few know about. Lastly the leaflet of pisces was perfect for what it was. simple. Also it contained some interesting things about a few of the songs like how they were recorded.

Lastly I think a generic survey of content people would want could be put together if you really need some metrics.

Anyway I'm just glad this dialog is even open for discussion. I think lucky 13 is doing well enough. You can't please everyone.

[orchidaii]

I'm glad to see that the interview with Billy clarified a lot. As you can see, it is highly dense in information. I will post the audio to my YouTube channel along with a summary of the interview later on. I see some fans complained how things are not going fast enough for them - please keep in mind that we are working on this project on top of our regular full-time jobs and on top of other SP-related projects that we are involved in.

The latest discussions on format and pricing systems are really helpful to the team!

[WayneArnold]

ChrisHill, on 18 April 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

I have no idea :)/> I'm not a vinyl person, but vinyl people keep saying things like "I wish I could get [x] on vinyl", and it's considered a "collectors item".

This is why there'd be vinyl. Because some people view it as a collector's item. That's what we need to drive this thing, so it doesn't really matter if you feel the need to put it in quotes. You need something people will pay decent money for- vinyl is that something.

[ChrisHill]

WayneArnold, on 18 April 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

This is why there'd be vinyl. Because some people view it as a collector's item. That's what we need to drive this thing, so it doesn't really matter if you feel the need to put it in quotes. You need something people will pay decent money for- vinyl is that something.

That was my assumption, hence why I included it in the tiered contribution idea.

[manuglass]

orchidaii, on 18 April 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

I'm glad to see that the interview with Billy clarified a lot. As you can see, it is highly dense in information. I will post the audio to my YouTube channel along with a summary of the interview later on. I see some fans complained how things are not going fast enough for them - please keep in mind that we are working on this project on top of our regular full-time jobs and on top of other SP-related projects that we are involved in.

The latest discussions on format and pricing systems are really helpful to the team!

I'm starting to be a little overwhelmed by how dense the information is and how difficult it is going to be to keep discussing the project. Do you guys think it would be too crazy to set up a whole message board (here, at sp.com of course) for the SPRC-Lucky 13 discussions? That way we can use one threat to take about revenue models, others to discuss what materials we'd like to hear, etc.

[WayneArnold]

ChrisHill, on 18 April 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

That was my assumption, hence why I included it in the tiered contribution idea.

I don't think you're seeing the full weight it should have. Right now it's the ONLY format people don't mind paying for. In fact, record labels have hiked up vinyl prices and are charging people up to $40 for a single album. And people pay it.


This has to be a lot more simple: Vinyl. Digital. That's it.

[Drevpile]

Mayfair, on 18 April 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

nope :(/>

:(/> I though you must have been joking before when you asked if your invite had been lost in the post. I suspect mine was torn up, if written at all, after I pressed my disappointment about the Archive Project V1 and it's handler. Anyway, I don't know why, but now, I really get the feeling that this thing has just got to happen. I mean they, the Lucky13, are going to have to be absolutely incompetent to not make this work. There are so may good ideas floating around, Billy essentially giving them/us control is quite bonkers good and I don't think it would a team on geniuses to not see 2 or 3 key approaches to flesh out and put together in some sort of 'formal proposal' to us fans.

Anyway, we shall see. I want to say I am genuinely excited, but you know - once bitten, twice shy n all.

Lucky 13, could you answer me this. Serious question; which organisations / databases / websites for archive material have you been researching and considering as a template for our own forthcoming hub? Thanks.

This post has been edited by Drevpile: 18 April 2012 - 01:01 PM

[RottingApples]

Everything starts out digital, but if any of the tiers reach a certain number of downloads, a limited edition physical release can be produced, as has been discussed before.

The following would be ideal for audio:

Tier 1: Double Door ’95 compilation (1-2 disc comp best of the 4 shows)
Tier 2: All 4 complete Double Door shows available individually.
Tier 3: Double Door box set of all 4 shows packaged together, for a discount.

Make all 3 options available, and any tier that reaches xx amount of downloads can have the physical copy.

[WayneArnold]

To clarify, I don't think every release should be done using the same exact methods. (Obviously). Let's take the Rubano tapes as an example even though I agree with others that it's not a good candidate for the first release.


This seems like you could only do a digital release because of the amount of music. With something like that, you could do a "best of" vinyl or something, but I don't see anyone paying $500 for all of that shit on vinyl. You're welcome to find another band's release as proof that people would actually pay that, but, shockingly, none spring to mind.

Drevpile, on 18 April 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

:(/> I though you must have been joking before when you asked if your invite had been lost in the post. I suspect mine was torn up, if written at all, after I pressed my disappointment about the Archive Project V1 and it's handler. Anyway, I don't know why, but now, I really get the feeling that this thing has just got to happen. I mean they, the Lucky13, are going to have to be absolutely incompetent to not make this work. There are so may good ideas floating around, Billy essentially giving them/us control is quite bonkers good and I don't think it would a team on geniuses to not see 2 or 3 key approaches to flesh out and put together in some sort of 'formal proposal' to us fans.

Anyway, we shall see. I want to say I am genuinely excited, but you know - once bitten, twice shy n all.

Lucky 13, could you answer me this. Serious question; which organisations / databases / websites for archive material have you been researching and considering as a template for our own forthcoming hub? Thanks.

The one thing that makes me nervous is the same thing that's exciting about it- it's in our (or the Lucky 13's at the end of the day) hands. While Billy is right- lots of smart Smashing Pumpkins fans- many of those same fans are often socially challenged.

[Drevpile]

orchidaii, on 18 April 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

... we are working on this project on top of ... other SP-related projects that we are involved in.

Erm, jobs fine whatever, fair enough, - but seriously - pray tell what is more important than this project in the SP world? I'll tell you what - nothing. That's what. I can not see anything which could possibly supersede the best opportunity ever to solidify the importance of this bands music and history than the archive project?

[WayneArnold]

Drevpile, on 18 April 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

Erm, jobs fine whatever, fair enough, - but seriously - pray tell what is more important than this project in the SP world? I'll tell you what - nothing. That's what.

hahaha god, how are you not on this team?

[Drevpile]

WayneArnold, on 18 April 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

The one thing that makes me nervous is the same thing that's exciting about it- it's in our (or the Lucky 13's at the end of the day) hands. While Billy is right- lots of smart Smashing Pumpkins fans- many of those same fans are often socially challenged.

I hear you. But I think the smart people will, if consulted properly, be able to point out any black-holes in any potential plan which 'they' table to us...

[ChrisHill]

RottingApples, on 18 April 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Everything starts out digital, but if any of the tiers reach a certain number of downloads, a limited edition physical release can be produced, as has been discussed before.

The following would be ideal for audio:

Tier 1: Double Door ’95 compilation (1-2 disc comp best of the 4 shows)
Tier 2: All 4 complete Double Door shows available individually.
Tier 3: Double Door box set of all 4 shows packaged together, for a discount.

Make all 3 options available, and any tier that reaches xx amount of downloads can have the physical copy.

I agree that the Double Door naturally supports a tiered approach, but you're missing out on the benefit that Kickstarter provides: up front financial backing. Just making the music available for download is expensive, and like Billy said they need a guarantee that they'll make back their cost before they go in and spend the time/money preparing the music. So tiers would look something like:

$10 - digital download of the best of the 4 '95 Double Door shows (this "best of" works, because it's a limited set of music for someone to go through and cherry pick from)
$50 - digital download of all 4 Double Door shows, complete
$100 - CD boxset of all 4 Double Door shows, hand-numbered and autographed by Billy
$200 - Vinyl boxset of all 4 Double Door shows, hand-numbered and autographed by Billy, access to digital download
$400 - Vinyl boxset of all 4 Double Door shows, hand-numbered and autographed by Billy, access to digital download, tickets and backstage passes to a show on the upcoming tour with some sort of band meet-and-greet (obviously this would depend on tour dates being public, just spitballing idea for "bonuses" that wouldn't cost the band money but would pull in extra $$)

I'll defer to WayneArnold on whether an item like this would appeal to vinyl collectors. He's right that the smaller set of collectors of physical media that are willing to pay more money are the key to raising enough to fund the digital downloads.

It's important, I think, to not look at the Kickstarter tiers as "prices", per se. I believe you can contribute however much you want to a Kickstarter project, regardless of where the tiers are set, the different tiers are just meant to reward those who contribute more and guide the amounts that people pledge. The goal here would be to get the Double Door shows released, regardless of how much each individual person pledges.

(Disclaimer: I purposely left out video since it was unclear from the interview whether Billy had access and rights to these shows on video)

Drevpile, on 18 April 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

Lucky 13, could you answer me this. Serious question; which organisations / databases / websites for archive material have you been researching and considering as a template for our own forthcoming hub? Thanks.

Do you see this hub as the catalog of archive material or a place where, once something has been released, future fans can purchase digital downloads? Because I view the latter as a project too big for a volunteer, in-their-spare-time, group of fans. If the SPFC is down for a little while, it's no big deal. If you put your credit card info into a site and it goes down or is hacked or something, you expect a different level of professional service and support that volunteer fans couldn't possibly provide. If it's the former, I think they could leverage the SPFC. Add a database field for including "archive sound quality" in the recording information section of a show, fill in the setlist gaps, and add the recording info and sound quality. Voila.

Chris Hill

[orchidaii]

Drevpile, on 18 April 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

Erm, jobs fine whatever, fair enough, - but seriously - pray tell what is more important than this project in the SP world? I'll tell you what - nothing. That's what. I can not see anything which could possibly supersede the best opportunity ever to solidify the importance of this bands music and history than the archive project?

You are very much a person of extremes and identify the worst possible scenario right away. Keep in mind that we are dealing with the grey areas of the archive here :p/>
You're a smart person - I don't think it would take you very long to identify other aspects of the band that are just as crucial. Not all of us in the team are dealing with more pressing matters right now, so you do not have to worry. Unfortunately, I cannot elaborate more. I am trying to see things through the eyes of a fan that is not involved in internal discussions. So, I just wanted to make it clear that all members of the team are working on this project as often as they can despite the difficult circumstances.

ChrisHill, on 18 April 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

Do you see this hub as the catalog of archive material or a place where, once something has been released, future fans can purchase digital downloads? Because I view the latter as a project too big for a volunteer, in-their-spare-time, group of fans. If the SPFC is down for a little while, it's no big deal. If you put your credit card info into a site and it goes down or is hacked or something, you expect a different level of professional service and support that volunteer fans couldn't possibly provide. If it's the former, I think they could leverage the SPFC. Add a database field for including "archive sound quality" in the recording information section of a show, fill in the setlist gaps, and add the recording info and sound quality. Voila.

Chris Hill

We wouldn't even dream of handling financial aspects or payment processes. That will all be done on a site like Kickstarter or on smashingpumpkins.com

WayneArnold, on 18 April 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

The one thing that makes me nervous is the same thing that's exciting about it- it's in our (or the Lucky 13's at the end of the day) hands. While Billy is right- lots of smart Smashing Pumpkins fans- many of those same fans are often socially challenged.

I think it's possible - let's not think about the worst-case scenario right away. I'm willing to keep the dialogue open and going as I have for the past few days for the long run. I have not enjoyed unprovoked personal attacks, but I guess that comes with the territory.

[Simon]

orchidaii, on 18 April 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

I think it's possible - let's not think about the worst-case scenario right away. I'm willing to keep the dialogue open and going as I have for the past few days for the long run. I have not enjoyed unprovoked personal attacks, but I guess that comes with the territory.

Oh come on, you know you love the drama! DONT DENY IT. ;)/>
From an admin's perspective, thanks for keeping the lines open as you have. I believe this is the kind of conversation Paul was hoping for when he first laid down his life for the board. :drama:/>

[ChrisHill]

orchidaii, on 18 April 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

We wouldn't even dream of handling financial aspects or payment processes. That will all be done on a site like Kickstarter or on smashingpumpkins.com

Then it's probably worth your while to find out what band's contract with the people who code/run sp.com looks like. Would adding a for-pay digital download hub be part of the services they're contracted to provide or would it be an extra up-front cost that needs to be factored into the Kickstarter campaigns?

Chris Hill

[crestfallen73]

I understand why people enjoy collecting vinyl. However, you have to think about the material. If some of this stuff is material never before heard I know I'd not want vinyl as the only option because I'd want to listen to it. How many people have record players over those with MP3 or cd players?

[Mayfair]

RottingApples, on 18 April 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Tier 1: Double Door ’95 compilation (1-2 disc comp best of the 4 shows)

Put A Tiger In Your Tank!

[davidp2007]

Mayfair, on 18 April 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

nope :(/>




SDB in the archives.

SDB?

The tier system seems like a possibility. And vinyl is cool and an all, but I don't personally see myself paying $500 for a vinyl box set. If I was able to even spend half that, I would have bought a used copy of Siamese Singles off ebay a long time ago. Obviously there is a lot more material on say the Rubano Tapes, but I don't see most of the fans shelling out that much for vinyl or in general on any one release.

Let's be realistic. The vast majority of the Lucky 13 are bound to have lives outside the Pumpkins and/or other involvement with the band. This isn't a full time job for them. Sorry to say, but there is more to life than the Pumpkins. I am passionate about the band and have tried to stay involved in the community myself in my own small way, but you can't hold people up to an impossible standard. Obviously they are dedicated and passionate about trying to make this project work and trying to get all the other fans involved in the process. They wouldn't be a part of the team if it wasn't a priority for them, but even Billy is juggling multiple priorities, and again, these are volunteers, not paid workers.

It's healthy to bring some skepticism, perhaps constructive criticism or suggestions on how things could be improved. But it's a completely different matter to think it will help to belittle the people involved whether directly or in a abstract way. Or expect that everything will be crystal clear and they will have figured everything out from a mere 5 days of discussions in an ongoing and ever evolving project.

[Fernando]

I think there are a lot of material we don't even know the existence, it's really hard to try to ask for something in this situation. I think that our job here is try to define:

1) the release formats;

2) the forms to release it;

3) Estimated values ​​for each media.

I think we can opine on the things we already know exist. For this, we need to separete things like:

1) VIDEO (Show / Backstage / Recording Process)

2) AUDIO (SHOW / DEMOS)

3) ARTWORK (POSTERS / SCRAPS / PICTURES)

Just an idea.

[frednirv632]

Fernando, on 18 April 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

3) ARTWORK (POSTERS / SCRAPS / PICTURES)

I'd completely forgotten the fact that items like these do, in fact, exist in the archive. Are they part of the Lucky 13 project and consequent conversations? If so, would anyone even be interested in such items? I can't imagine reprinted posters/photos/etc would be in high demand at all.