[Parksey]

snail33, on 19 April 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

except for pablo honey, half of kid a, most of amnesiac, half of in rainbows and most of the king of limbs...sure.

Disagree completely, pablo honey aside, not that I could ever convince you otherwise. In Rainbows is their best album IMO.

snail33, on 19 April 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

the point they're making is very simple--that some artists (like bc/sp) get ripped and assessed based on their persona and supposed pretentiousness as opposed to purely based on the music, whereas others (like radiohead, who used to be one of my favorite bands, by the way) get praised from jump for everything they do based on supposed genius (even though i would argue they are MORE pretentious than bc).

They deserve every praise they get. There are plenty of other bands out there that genuinely do get unwarranted praise, not that it should really matter. Corgan only really gets blasted by Pitchfork and NME, other than that he gets pretty fair reviews (apart from the slating of Adore and to a lesser extent Machina).

[ItsSoPringles]

TwoHeadedBoy, on 19 April 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Rolling Stone gave TbK volume II a 3.5, I think they'll be as positive as they can be towards oceania.

thats odd, 3.5 seems like the right score for that.....when has RS been writing accurate reviews

[themadcaplaughs]

^^^

Rolling Stone has actually been very good to Billy post-revival. They gave Zeitgeist 4 out of 5 stars, gave "G.L.O.W." and "Superchrist" good reviews, and the previously mentinoed 3.5 stars for The Solstice Bare. They also named "Honeyspider" from the Gish reissue as a must-listen to track.

This post has been edited by themadcaplaughs: 20 April 2012 - 11:29 AM

[geofolkers]

All the new material I heard on last years tour was awesome! Whats the issue?

[LostSoul]

JOHNO, on 19 April 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

I see you highly rate 4/6 songs we've heard so far, care to share.... just curious

cheers

I think that as-is, Oceania, Pale Horse, My Love Is Winter, and Pinwheels are excellent. I also think that so long as the production doesn't drag them under, these songs have the potential to stand up to the old material. Easy.

Quasar & Panopticon, not so much. I suppose Quasar is a good "intro song", but it just doesn't seem genuine, and doesn't go anywhere for me. Still decent. I'll take it over G.L.O.W. any day of the week. Panopticon is better, definitely. Just mildly mundane to my ears is all.

You can argue all you want, but the four songs I mentioned have the Pumpkins' vibe I so miss. Pale Horse is completely reminiscent of Adore in both its instrumentation & atmosphere, as well as its tear-jerker lyrics. Instrumentally, My Love Is Winter & Pinwheels sound gorgeous. They certainly blew me away live, and the live boots still send a warmness through me that I've not felt with BC since Machina/Machina II.

The title track may seem a bit choppy to some, but I think the unexpected twists & turns add to its appeal, rather than detract. And, well...there's this:



Best part from 1:48 to 5:11. The first like, minute or two especially.

[TwoHeadedBoy]

Still she's gone, still she's gone...

[frosty]

i still don't get radiohead. they sound weird. not that i've heard everything, but i've been put off by some of it, so i haven't bothered hearing other stuff. i can't connect with OK Computer & that's supposed to be the best one. :S

(i'm wondering if y'all are just too white for me :awk:/>)

[JOHNO]

LostSoul, on 20 April 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

I think that as-is, Oceania, Pale Horse, My Love Is Winter, and Pinwheels are excellent. I also think that so long as the production doesn't drag them under, these songs have the potential to stand up to the old material. Easy.

Quasar & Panopticon, not so much. I suppose Quasar is a good "intro song", but it just doesn't seem genuine, and doesn't go anywhere for me. Still decent. I'll take it over G.L.O.W. any day of the week. Panopticon is better, definitely. Just mildly mundane to my ears is all.

You can argue all you want, but the four songs I mentioned have the Pumpkins' vibe I so miss. Pale Horse is completely reminiscent of Adore in both its instrumentation & atmosphere, as well as its tear-jerker lyrics. Instrumentally, My Love Is Winter & Pinwheels sound gorgeous. They certainly blew me away live, and the live boots still send a warmness through me that I've not felt with BC since Machina/Machina II.

The title track may seem a bit choppy to some, but I think the unexpected twists & turns add to its appeal, rather than detract. And, well...there's this:



Best part from 1:48 to 5:11. The first like, minute or two especially.

im totally the opposite with the new material, Pano's top of the tree for me (when Corgan sings "Thers a sun that shines in" proper gives me goosepimples everytime) with Quasar and Pinwheels a close seond.

Still its good to have different opinions, the world would be a boring place withouit people like us.....




cheers

[andrewface]

Bulletproofmask, on 19 April 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Two of their best albums in bold.

KOL was arguably their worst.

my bad I meant pablo honey not hail to the thief...

for the record Kid A is my favourite radiohead album

[Simon Belmont]

I think Pablo Honey is shit. I still love The Bends and most of OK Computer. I like about 1/2 of Kid A, and that is about it. They lost me at Amnesiac, I thought Hail to the Thief was just more of the same, In Rainbows is just fucking noise, and I have only listened to heard, under protest, about 3 tracks on King of Limbs because I just don't care to give them any more of my time at this point, especially for an album even most diehard Radiohead fans seem to be trying reeeaaaally hard to like.

This post has been edited by Simon Belmont: 21 April 2012 - 07:28 AM

[MaxR]

Fuck Radiohead. They are shit.

[Matteo]

damn why do all these sp fans hate radiohead so much? i don't see anything wrong with radiohead, in fact i like a bit of their stuff. they just have a few mediocre albums every now and then.

radiohead's probably the most experimental band i've heard. they're even more experimental than the pumpkins i'd say. and another remarkable thing about this band, is they didn't change their sound to be mainstream, it just happened. all of their album songs are just as good as the singles.

[TwoHeadedBoy]

Simon Belmont, on 21 April 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

especially for an album even most diehard Radiohead fans seem to be trying reeeaaaally hard to like.

That's one of the things I like about Radiohead, they make music that challenges the listener. Granted, I don't think they did a very good job on KoL...

[Simon Belmont]

TwoHeadedBoy, on 21 April 2012 - 08:36 AM, said:

That's one of the things I like about Radiohead, they make music that challenges the listener. Granted, I don't think they did a very good job on KoL...

There is challenging the listener, and then there is the listener being too much of a pretentious hipster to admit to their pretentious hipster friends that they may not be as much of a hipster because they may not be utterly floored by something Radiohead has squeezed out. This is what I hate most about Radiohead, just their fanbase, and their refusal to admit when they don't like something. For example, a friend of mine, who is a HUGE Radiohead fan, and a HUGE hipster, said this exact quote when KoL came out. "I don't know what to think about it yet, I mean, um, it's A-MAAAZ-ING, because it's Radiohead, I just haven't gotten it yet. I need to listen to it a few more times, and then I'm sure I'll love it. I mean, I love it already, because it's Radiohead, I'm just not sure in what way yet." I said "You know, the world won't collapse on itself if you admit out loud that you don't like a Radiohead album."

[GracefulSwan]

Simon Belmont, on 21 April 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

There is challenging the listener, and then there is the listener being too much of a pretentious hipster to admit to their pretentious hipster friends that they may not be as much of a hipster because they may not be utterly floored by something Radiohead has squeezed out. This is what I hate most about Radiohead, just their fanbase, and their refusal to admit when they don't like something. For example, a friend of mine, who is a HUGE Radiohead fan, and a HUGE hipster, said this exact quote when KoL came out. "I don't know what to think about it yet, I mean, um, it's A-MAAAZ-ING, because it's Radiohead, I just haven't gotten it yet. I need to listen to it a few more times, and then I'm sure I'll love it. I mean, I love it already, because it's Radiohead, I'm just not sure in what way yet." I said "You know, the world won't collapse on itself if you admit out loud that you don't like a Radiohead album."

I'm anticipating their next album to be a record of pure silence, along with comments from fans of "hey, it's art! They're changing music as we know it!".

For the record, I like Radiohead, or at least their earlier work. The turning point for me was when OK Computer was released, they actually latched on to the fact that fans thought the likes of 'Fitter, Happier' was anything more than a joke, and realised that they could stop putting effort into making albums and instead produce obscure electronic sound collections. I liked them when they used actual skill to make music, when they played guitars. As far as I'm concerned 'Fitter, Happier', which is actually made by typing words into the Mac program SimpleText, takes zero skill to produce. I can type words into that program and call it a song, it doesn't mean it is one.

[misguided]

andrewface, on 19 April 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

amnesiac? King of Limbs? hail to the thief?

take your pick....

don't be lumping KoL with greater albums. KOL and Kid A maybe. lol

[Elphenor]

Simon Belmont, on 21 April 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

I think Pablo Honey is shit. I still love The Bends and most of OK Computer. I like about 1/2 of Kid A, and that is about it. They lost me at Amnesiac, I thought Hail to the Thief was just more of the same, In Rainbows is just fucking noise, and I have only listened to heard, under protest, about 3 tracks on King of Limbs because I just don't care to give them any more of my time at this point, especially for an album even most diehard Radiohead fans seem to be trying reeeaaaally hard to like.

The hell? :crazy:/>

[themadcaplaughs]

Quote

"I don't know what to think about it yet, I mean, um, it's A-MAAAZ-ING, because it's Radiohead, I just haven't gotten it yet. I need to listen to it a few more times, and then I'm sure I'll love it. I mean, I love it already, because it's Radiohead, I'm just not sure in what way yet." I said "You know, the world won't collapse on itself if you admit out loud that you don't like a Radiohead album."

Sounds like Smashing Pumpkins fans...

[dudehitscar]

flippingsweet779, on 21 April 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

The hell? :crazy:/>

Exactly. Did sb listen to the album... It's more tuneful than ok computer.

[Elphenor]

MaxR, on 21 April 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Fuck Radiohead. They are shit.

Just...


:nope:/>

How can you like alternative rock and not like Radiohead?

[dudehitscar]

flippingsweet779, on 21 April 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

Just...


:nope:/>

How can you like alternative rock and not like Radiohead?

I get that people might not like thom Yorke as a singer but to dismis their talent is just idiotic or ignorant.

[Elphenor]

dudehitscar, on 21 April 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

I get that people might not like thom Yorke as a singer but to dismis their talent is just idiotic or ignorant.

Yeah I suppose. Thom Yorke is one of my favorite vocalists ever though, top 5 for sure. What's not to like? high pitched and winy maybe? But come on, these are all pumpkins fans...

[dudehitscar]

flippingsweet779, on 21 April 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

Yeah I suppose. Thom Yorke is one of my favorite vocalists ever though, top 5 for sure. What's not to like? high pitched and winy maybe? But come on, these are all pumpkins fans...

I think he's great but it's an acquired taste... Especially since since ok computer.

[Simon Belmont]

themadcaplaughs, on 21 April 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Sounds like Smashing Pumpkins fans...

Yeah, I agree...in fact, that may have been the turning point for me where I realized I was almost as bad as he was, and I decided to stop defending every idiotic thing Billy does and trying to make excuses for why ZG and TBK sucked.

[TwoHeadedBoy]

dudehitscar, on 21 April 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Exactly. Did sb listen to the album... It's more tuneful than ok computer.

It's my favorite Radiohead album. Nude, House of Cards, Reckoner, All I Need, Videotape are absolutely gorgeous songs, and the rest are very good to great.

[Whicker]

Radiohead takes a while to get used to, it will be weird at first but after a while you will see the big picture and start to like it. Start off with The bends and OK computer, then maybe skip to In rainbows and then go to Kid A. TKoL is shit though, monotonous and boring... In Rainbows on the other hand is incredible, make sure you listen to the second disc too! OR youl miss these gems!

media][/media]

[Elphenor]

Kid A is a fantastic album though! Don't skip it. It took me awhile to appreciate it, but once you get it it's mind blowing...

[Simon Belmont]

flippingsweet779, on 21 April 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

The hell? :crazy:/>

dudehitscar, on 21 April 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Exactly. Did sb listen to the album... It's more tuneful than ok computer.

Yes, I did listen to it. Multiple times, because I had several people telling me how incredible it was when it came out, and this was back before I finally decided I just simply didn't like Radiohead, and that that was ok...not everyone has to fucking like Radiohead. I listened to that album probably a good dozen times all the way through, really trying to see what I was missing. Every time, I got to the end of the album, and couldn't remember a single standout moment of it. It was just an hour of noise to me, nothing that made any sort of musical or emotional impression on me at all, even when I was really looking for it. In Rainbows is the album that made me come out of the "Alright, I hate Radiohead" closet.

P.S. One of the guys who was pushing the album on me heavily when it first came out admitted to me a few months ago that he didn't like it either, he was just doing the Radiohead fanboy thing and talking it up because he felt like people would judge him if he didn't like it. Makes me wonder how many others are doing the same...I have a feeling it is the majority.

[Elphenor]

Simon Belmont, on 21 April 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Yes, I did listen to it. Multiple times, because I had several people telling me how incredible it was when it came out, and this was back before I finally decided I just simply didn't like Radiohead, and that that was ok...not everyone has to fucking like Radiohead. I listened to that album probably a good dozen times all the way through, really trying to see what I was missing. Every time, I got to the end of the album, and couldn't remember a single standout moment of it. It was just an hour of noise to me, nothing that made any sort of musical or emotional impression on me at all, even when I was really looking for it. In Rainbows is the album that made me come out of the "Alright, I hate Radiohead" closet.

P.S. One of the guys who was pushing the album on me heavily when it first came out admitted to me a few months ago that he didn't like it either, he was just doing the Radiohead fanboy thing and talking it up because he felt like people would judge him if he didn't like it. Makes me wonder how many others are doing the same...I have a feeling it is the majority.

It's cool if you just don't like Radiohead, but its silly to call In Rainbows "noise".

And I don't think the majority of Radiohead fans are just trying to avoid being accused of having unrefined musical tastes, In Rainbows is not some sort of invisible emperor's clothes it's a genuinely good album.

[TwoHeadedBoy]

The falsetto at 4:36 is devastating.

I understand SB's feelings on the album. It can seem a little samey throughout. Still, listening to this album all the way through on high quality vinyl is one hell of an experience if you're in the right mood.

[dudehitscar]

King of limbs is decent. Most of the songs are pretty good by themselves... Putting them all together makes the album a bit boring though.

In rainbows is great but you have to get the second disk

Down in the new up and bangers and the mash are better than most of the proper album... And that is saying a lot.

[oryann]

haha I love how so many SP threads end up turning into discussions about Radiohead.

[Parksey]

^^ there's a lot of jealous SP fans

[sun]

What does it matter what the critics say? They all seem to be bitter and twisted anyway.

[awsmsc]

For what it's worth...

Pablo Honey: C+
The Bends: B
OK Computer: A-
Kid A: A+
Amnesiac: B
Hail to the Thief: B
In Rainbows: A-
King of Limbs: C+

[Simon Belmont]

Pablo Honey: D
The Bends: A-
OK Computer: B
Kid A: C+
Amnesiac: D-
Hail to the Thief: D
In Rainbows: D-
King of Limbs: Don't care.

[nasalscarecrow]

oryann, on 21 April 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

haha I love how so many SP threads end up turning into discussions about Radiohead.

They obviously have really 'protective' fans. There are a few bands like this, a single criticism is like blasphemy to their fans.

[eyeboogers]

Pablo Honey: C
The Bends: A-
OK Computer: B
Kid A: A-
Amnesiac: C
Hail to the Thief: D
In Rainbows: D
King of Limbs: F

[Parksey]

nasalscarecrow, on 22 April 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

They obviously have really 'protective' fans. There are a few bands like this, a single criticism is like blasphemy to their fans.

if anything it seems like some people just use every opportunity they get to rag on Radiohead for some reason, be it jealousy, frustration whatever.

i don't really see how a discussion on Oceania not being released for pre-reviews was an appropriate thread for people to start talking about Radiohead's studio output and why they think they suck.

[Ruby Ring]

I think the reason a lot of SP fans have an attitude about Radiohead is that a lot of us were around when SP was the godfather of the musical world, and Radiohead was thier less talented and less popular distant relative. Obviously our beloved SP fell apart, while somewhere along the way, Radiohead figured out a way to make anyone with a little bit of power in the music critic world swear that anything they did is the greatest thing that has ever been recorded. Just like grade school: it is the classic case of the cool kids versus the dorks. You are either in or you are out. "Better kiss so and so's ass or I will be out too". Somehow Radiohead has become that band that you simply have to like, or something is wrong with you. Which is all hypocritical bullshit, of course. And totally undeserved.

I don't think anyone is saying that Radiohead aren't talented at what they do. I think the point is that it isn't fair that Radiohead gets immediate praise regardless of the quality of their work, from fans and critics, meanwhile, even when he was in his prime with SD and MCIS, SP has had to practically beg and plead to get a fair shake from critics, even as he poured his very soul into making some of the greatest rock records of our time. And that's another thing: Radiohead sure as hell isn't rock and roll.

And to his credit: Corgan always has been the REAL alternative, and he still is. Radiohead is the popular quarterback/cheerleader.

[savethetiger]

close this fucking thread what a joke

[Deleted User Account]

Ruby Ring, on 22 April 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

I think the reason a lot of SP fans have an attitude about Radiohead is that a lot of us were around when SP was the godfather of the musical world, and Radiohead was thier less talented and less popular distant relative. Obviously our beloved SP fell apart, while somewhere along the way, Radiohead figured out a way to make anyone with a little bit of power in the music critic world swear that anything they did is the greatest thing that has ever been recorded. Just like grade school: it is the classic case of the cool kids versus the dorks. You are either in or you are out. "Better kiss so and so's ass or I will be out too". Somehow Radiohead has become that band that you simply have to like, or something is wrong with you. Which is all hypocritical bullshit, of course. And totally undeserved.

I don't think anyone is saying that Radiohead aren't talented at what they do. I think the point is that it isn't fair that Radiohead gets immediate praise regardless of the quality of their work, from fans and critics, meanwhile, even when he was in his prime with SD and MCIS, SP has had to practically beg and plead to get a fair shake from critics, even as he poured his very soul into making some of the greatest rock records of our time. And that's another thing: Radiohead sure as hell isn't rock and roll.

And to his credit: Corgan always has been the REAL alternative, and he still is. Radiohead is the popular quarterback/cheerleader.

LOL. And why do people hate critics? It's just another opinion. "oh but it influences the public!" Get real. Corgan will continue to make music until the day he dies, and he will continue to be the same loud mouth arsehole we've come to love/hate.

This is all so lame. I hope you all wake up to why and stop doing this. "Radiohead suck! Smashing Pumpkins are better! I assert my individuality via the bands I choose to listen to like a 14 year old!" News flash. You're nerds. Now get out of here before I stuff you all into your Corgan cutout covered lockers.

[Ruby Ring]

ArticulateEric, on 22 April 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

LOL. And why do people hate critics? It's just another opinion. "oh but it influences the public!" Get real. Corgan will continue to make music until the day he dies, and he will continue to be the same loud mouth arsehole we've come to love/hate.

This is all so lame. I hope you all wake up to why and stop doing this. "Radiohead suck! Smashing Pumpkins are better! I assert my individuality via the bands I choose to listen to like a 14 year old!" News flash. You're nerds. Now get out of here before I stuff you all into your Corgan cutout covered lockers.

LOL. You have no idea who I am. Your remarks are funny though. If you could see where I will spending the next week and with whom, you'd change your tune. But I digress.

Truth is, I don't even care a whole lot about SP anymore and haven't really in about ten years. They were very important to me early in life and that's what brings me back here - nostalgia and curiosity. Most of the bands I like are WAY far removed from the SP vs. Radiohead debate. Drive-By Truckers, Black Crowes, My Morning Jacket, The Whigs, Rolling Stones. Give a shit about any of those bands? Does that make me a "nerd"?

I am just passing the time buddy. If you don't like it, move on.

[dudehitscar]

Ruby Ring, on 22 April 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

I think the reason a lot of SP fans have an attitude about Radiohead is that a lot of us were around when SP was the godfather of the musical world, and Radiohead was thier less talented and less popular distant relative. Obviously our beloved SP fell apart, while somewhere along the way, Radiohead figured out a way to make anyone with a little bit of power in the music critic world swear that anything they did is the greatest thing that has ever been recorded. Just like grade school: it is the classic case of the cool kids versus the dorks. You are either in or you are out. "Better kiss so and so's ass or I will be out too". Somehow Radiohead has become that band that you simply have to like, or something is wrong with you. Which is all hypocritical bullshit, of course. And totally undeserved.

I don't think anyone is saying that Radiohead aren't talented at what they do. I think the point is that it isn't fair that Radiohead gets immediate praise regardless of the quality of their work, from fans and critics, meanwhile, even when he was in his prime with SD and MCIS, SP has had to practically beg and plead to get a fair shake from critics, even as he poured his very soul into making some of the greatest rock records of our time. And that's another thing: Radiohead sure as hell isn't rock and roll.

And to his credit: Corgan always has been the REAL alternative, and he still is. Radiohead is the popular quarterback/cheerleader.

lots of people on here say Radiohead suck and untalented and Radiohead is a rock and roll band... would you suggest that NIN isn't rock and roll either.