[KingBelteshazzar]

who is anyone here to say that Billy's vocal's "lack emotion"?

Sounds like a completely arbitrary observation. As if any of us somehow were in possession of a magical ability to discern just exactly when and how Billy's voice is carrying emotion, and exactly what kind.

Maybe his voice carries all different kinds of emotions?

Or maybe his singing just improved or changed and some people prefer the old voice? That's fine - but to say it doesn't have emotion in it is a little silly if you ask me.

I for one have no problem with Billy's vocals - ever. Not on any album. And yes, I have noticed the changes, but I like his singing every time. His voice is always unique.

[GracefulSwan]

Some people sound like they've already made their minds up, if it's not the 'old' Pumpkins then it's not going to be good. I'm just going in with an open mind.

[KingBelteshazzar]

for any Pumpkins album, you have to have an open mind (and an open ear). always.

Zeitgeist wasn't what people expected? Oh, then it must be crap, right. :rolleyes:/>

Funny how people said the same things about Adore and Machina back when those came out.

[afroguy10]

vescret, on 08 June 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

i know...i went to E3 this week

You lucky bastard, get your arse to my E3 thread in the Computing/Tech subforum and let us know what you got up to :yes:/>.

[vescret]

afroguy10, on 08 June 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

You lucky bastard, get your arse to my E3 thread in the Computing/Tech subforum and let us know what you got up to :yes:/>.

im on my way!

[Bulletproofmask]

KingBelteshazzar, on 08 June 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

who is anyone here to say that Billy's vocal's "lack emotion"?

Sounds like a completely arbitrary observation. As if any of us somehow were in possession of a magical ability to discern just exactly when and how Billy's voice is carrying emotion, and exactly what kind.

Maybe his voice carries all different kinds of emotions?

Or maybe his singing just improved or changed and some people prefer the old voice? That's fine - but to say it doesn't have emotion in it is a little silly if you ask me.

I for one have no problem with Billy's vocals - ever. Not on any album. And yes, I have noticed the changes, but I like his singing every time. His voice is always unique.

You must be a thrill to have dinner with:

"Welcome to the Teagarden, my name is Steven and I'll be your waiter this evening. Do you know what you'd like to order?"

"Who can say what I would like? How can anyone judge if one dish is better than another? My friend tells me that all of the food here is bland, but maybe it just carries all kinds of imperceptible flavors. Who am I decide?"

[frednirv632]

:rofl:/>

[Claude]

All I know is the "you should want it aaallllllll" on Doomsday Clock is one of the worst vocal deliveries I've ever heard in a band that is as credible as SP. Every song sounds like he's plugging his nose.

[KingBelteshazzar]

Bulletproofmask, on 08 June 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

You must be a thrill to have dinner with:

"Welcome to the Teagarden, my name is Steven and I'll be your waiter this evening. Do you know what you'd like to order?"

"Who can say what I would like? How can anyone judge if one dish is better than another? My friend tells me that all of the food here is bland, but maybe it just carries all kinds of imperceptible flavors. Who am I decide?"

uh...your analogy doesn't quite hold up.

personal tastes/preferences are one thing - but it's pretty much impossible to objectively say that Billy's voice "doesn't have emotion". That's like trying to objectively say that oysters are disgusting. I might agree with your preference, or disagree with it, but the point of dispute is how people are trying to matter-of-factly say that Billy's voice has no emotion. I disagree with that opinion - and i disagree with how it's being presented almost as if it's a universal truth.

I'm quite delightful to have dinner with - just as I am in most situations.

[AlienCloak]

Would it be more acceptable to you if that person said "I THINK Billy's voice doesn't have emotion" ? I'm pretty sure they're giving their opinion and not establishing it as fact.

[dustrock]

Internet srs bsns

[DandyJon]

KingBelteshazzar, on 08 June 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

who is anyone here to say that Billy's vocal's "lack emotion"?

Sounds like a completely arbitrary observation. As if any of us somehow were in possession of a magical ability to discern just exactly when and how Billy's voice is carrying emotion, and exactly what kind.

Maybe his voice carries all different kinds of emotions?

Or maybe his singing just improved or changed and some people prefer the old voice? That's fine - but to say it doesn't have emotion in it is a little silly if you ask me.

I for one have no problem with Billy's vocals - ever. Not on any album. And yes, I have noticed the changes, but I like his singing every time. His voice is always unique.

Nicely said, its nice to see some optimism on here for once :cheers:/>

[vescret]

dustrock, on 08 June 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Internet srs bsns

?

[TwoHeadedBoy]

Bulletproofmask, on 08 June 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

You must be a thrill to have dinner with:

"Welcome to the Teagarden, my name is Steven and I'll be your waiter this evening. Do you know what you'd like to order?"

"Who can say what I would like? How can anyone judge if one dish is better than another? My friend tells me that all of the food here is bland, but maybe it just carries all kinds of imperceptible flavors. Who am I decide?"

I read this with Larry David's voice.

[WayneArnold]

DandyJon, on 08 June 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

Nicely said, its nice to see some optimism on here for once :cheers:/>

You must have missed all those people praising Oceania after listening to 30 second clips.

[KingBelteshazzar]

AlienCloak, on 08 June 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

Would it be more acceptable to you if that person said "I THINK Billy's voice doesn't have emotion" ? I'm pretty sure they're giving their opinion and not establishing it as fact.

yes, that would be more acceptable. though i'd still disagree. I mean, exactly what criteria determines whether his voice has emotion or not? And how would you know you're interpreting that criteria accurately? The apparent consensus that his voice doesn't have any emotion in it lately is just kind of boggling my mind. I'd like to know why people think that.

I personally think his current voice has had plenty of emotion in it. That's of course my opinion, and we all have our opinions. It's just how I interpret what I hear and we all interpret what we hear differently.

But I'd be really interested to know how Billy would react to hearing from his fans that his voice has no emotion in it, when he probably thinks he poured tons of emotion into it. :o/> Don't you think he'd be the ultimate authority as to how much emotion is really present in the recording? Of course you could say that regardless of how much emotion he felt while singing it, it's about what is successfully conveyed - but, what is conveyed is all about interpretation then, isn't it.

[HereIsNoY]

This is hilarious. "Billy, be more emotional!"

It's Billy fucking Corgan, people. Every other word he uses in a song is love, yet the guy is emotionless?

I'd rather have him be real and sing like himself rather than attempting to replicate his MCIS, Adore, etc. vocals.

[KingBelteshazzar]

yeah i mean - does he have to whine or whimper or pout or feign a cry in his voice for it to sound emotional? what is the criteria?

[Lenders Michl]

CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME IF THE STREAM IS WORLDWIDE????? :shocked:/>

[dudehitscar]

[quote name='KingBelteshazzar' timestamp='1339216500' post='689210']
yeah i mean - does he have to whine or whimper or pout or feign a cry in his voice for it to sound emotional? what is the criteria?
[

What is the criteria you are using to say it sounds emotional to you? It's just the way we perceive the vocals based on stylistic choices of BC. Its not about Billy's intent.

[gyang333]

You people are being such nerds about this...

[nasalscarecrow]

I like Zeitgeist's vocals. Apart from on Stellar. That one grates.

[frosty]

:lol:/>

edit: i was lolling at the you people are being such nerds thing.

[bosmanad]

Lenders Michl, on 09 June 2012 - 03:39 AM, said:

CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME IF THE STREAM IS WORLDWIDE????? :shocked:/>

I'm not sure if we know yet. I've listened to many streams on iTunes, but never tried it from another country. I'll make you a deal; if you don't get a stream from wherever you're at I'll personally rip you the US stream and send you a link. That said; if the band is serious about everyone hearing it at the same time then I'd THINK you'll get a stream too.

The reality is this will likely leak by Sunday, and if not then Tuesday for sure from someone backing out the stream for an AAC rip.

[Martine Castonguay]

AlienCloak, on 08 June 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

Would it be more acceptable to you if that person said "I THINK Billy's voice doesn't have emotion" ? I'm pretty sure they're giving their opinion and not establishing it as fact.

Having an opinion, which personally I believe it's good for humanity, doesn't mean we have to express it without care for the person receiving it.

Zeitgeist is, in my perception at least, about the way we are living in the world right now. Almost robotically. Without care for eachother. Without real understanding of our world. The tone of the album reflects it also. We could say it is an artistic choice fitting with the purpose. We could say the emotion is the most accurate that it could be in the situation.

I didn't heard the samples so I can't speak about my opinion about them. I'm really curious about your viewpoint on what does mean what you feel. Your emotion listening the music is as much valid finding or not emotion in it. What is interesting to know is why do you feel this emotion yourself? Could you explain more what do you feel?

[agent_cooper]

bosmanad, on 09 June 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

I'm not sure if we know yet. I've listened to many streams on iTunes, but never tried it from another country. I'll make you a deal; if you don't get a stream from wherever you're at I'll personally rip you the US stream and send you a link. That said; if the band is serious about everyone hearing it at the same time then I'd THINK you'll get a stream too.

The reality is this will likely leak by Sunday, and if not then Tuesday for sure from someone backing out the stream for an AAC rip.

what makes you think it will suddenly leak on Sunday, when Bill is keeping it locked away? I see no reason for it to suddenly come out earlier at all

[bosmanad]

agent_cooper, on 09 June 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

what makes you think it will suddenly leak on Sunday, when Bill is keeping it locked away? I see no reason for it to suddenly come out earlier at all

They have to ship the physical product to stores. It is during that process that leaks come out. They have to start the shipping process in the week before the release, if the boxes are to get to all the regions by the release date.

[Lenders Michl]

bosmanad, on 09 June 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

I'm not sure if we know yet. I've listened to many streams on iTunes, but never tried it from another country. I'll make you a deal; if you don't get a stream from wherever you're at I'll personally rip you the US stream and send you a link. That said; if the band is serious about everyone hearing it at the same time then I'd THINK you'll get a stream too.

The reality is this will likely leak by Sunday, and if not then Tuesday for sure from someone backing out the stream for an AAC rip.

BOSMANAD you are THE MAN! thx for rippin the stream. From Monday on I´ll be in vienna till friday and my pc is at home. so if there is a worldwide stream i´m not goin to hear it. so could you please rip it for me and then give me the link? would be awesome! thx man!

by the way, what is an AAC rip?

[chrisothoulos]

This weekend is a slight possibility but after Tuesday it will be everywhere

[awsmsc]

I doubt it'll be online pre-Tuesday. If I remember correctly, Zeitgeist didn't get online until 4 or 5 days before it's official release, and one day pre-stream will be 8 days pre-official release.

[Simon]

Just so you guys don't freak out on us, we'll be locking this thread when the album is first made available in full (whether by stream or leak).
This thread will eventually be archived along with other noteworthy threads from the history of this forum.
A new thread will be started with whoever first posts about the album. :cheers:/>

[ItsSoPringles]

why dont we make it easier and make a oceania discussion thread in advance and locking it until oceania is released in full? just how this thread is

http://www.smashingp...showtopic=19512

that way we can avoid a bunch of the same thread being made at once

anyhow been meaning to ask this, which song based off the sample do you think has the BEST vocals, i say one diomand

[Simon]

ItsSoPringles, on 09 June 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

why dont we make it easier and make a oceania discussion thread in advance and locking it until oceania is released in full? just how this thread is

http://www.smashingp...showtopic=19512

that way we can avoid a bunch of the same thread being made at once

anyhow been meaning to ask this, which song based off the sample do you think has the BEST vocals, i say one diomand

Ya, thanks. We had talked about that. The issue is that if the album leaks, we'd need a mod to open the new thread pronto. We have a lovely button that allows us to combine all the threads into one.
Best vocals? I love the emotion in Wildflowers. But I tend to be a black sheep in this community anyway. :cry:/>

[ItsSoPringles]

really wildflower? kinda surprising, that and quasar i thought were the ones no one would say

[Simon]

ItsSoPringles, on 09 June 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

really wildflower? kinda surprising, that and quasar i thought were the ones no one would say

Like I said, I tend to be the black sheep around here. :cry:/> x2. haha.

[RottingApples]

I think Wildflower's got some real potential. Glad to hear the mellotron again.

[ItsSoPringles]

i agree, its got potential, i for some reason think they just picked a really shitty spot to put the sample and thats why it sounds bad

[gyang333]

RottingApples, on 09 June 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

I think Wildflower's got some real potential. Glad to hear the mellotron again.

ItsSoPringles, on 09 June 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

i agree, its got potential, i for some reason think they just picked a really shitty spot to put the sample and thats why it sounds bad

Idk... It's screaming Pomp and Circumstance.

[Simon]

Some tweets during the recording of the album:
"Oceania// 5 songs mixes, only 3 left for overdubs. Title track is next for epic twin shooting star solos..." - Sept. 8
"Bat strat>Companion wah>Beano Boost>vintage Orange head=happy Labor Day everybody" - Sept. 5
"What a day to be working on the title track of the album. The song that sums all of these past two years up..." - Aug. 25
"Sang 'Inkless' today. 4 down. 9 to go!! Arranged to get our gear shipped as well to start rehearsals in a few weeks..." - Aug 3
"Put away 'Glissandra' for the moment, now back to 'The Celestials' to prep for more overdubs and singing" - July 30
"Sang 'Glissandra' today...singing fool...'Try it one more time'-Butch Vig" - July 28
"Sang first song today. Went well...'Pale Horse'. Only 12 to go! Plus solos, bells, whistles..." - July 27
"Working on 'The Celestials' today. Yes @montelds that would be 'formerly S-K'" - July 20
"Recording drums today. As in I'm hitting drums and recording them. Last time I did that was for 'cupid de locke' 16 years ago!" - July 14
"Chimera today/studio: got the Bat Strat out, doing damage. Into the Reeves 'Jimmy' head. Can't say enough good stuff about Reeves amps" - July 12
"Call me crazy but I'm in the studio today working on the song 'Oceania'. Currently plugging in the Mellotron/Mark VII. Karazy. Happy 4th!" - July 3
"Just listened back to 'Panopticon' from yesterday's work. EPIC. I cannot wait to finish this record..." - June 29
"Today's work: rhythm guitars for 'Quasar/Stella P' and then tonight going to see The Monkees! Music all day=a good life" - June 29
"2 down of gtrs, 11 to go!! My ears are buzzing. Kimberly + SG + Les Paul" - June 28
"Guitars for Panopticon today. A bit confusing this one, a good challenge. Have to reach in the magik bag for some new trix" - June 28
"Basic gtr tracks done for first song (Inkless)/12 to go! Sounds massive, beautiful, and oh so pretty." - June 27
"Oceania update: currently tracking rhythm guitars on Inkless. After 2 days of tests we are off and running. 1962 SG/Les Paul spcl. LOUD" - June 25
"went thru a bunch of different amp heads tonight/settled on 11 or 12/selmers/marshalls/vamp amp/bogner uberschall/laney/orange" - June 23
"Today in the studio: recalibrating our version of 'Pinwheels' and testing amps head/fuzz combinations. Endless options!" - June 23
"Starting basic guitar work today on 'Oceania'. Wish me luck! 1,000 parts/overdubs/flaming meteors to go..." - June 22
"@xocoleyf has only one more song to go, and all the bass should be done. Finished the bass on 'Oceania' today. Long song/lots 'o changes" - June 21
"Main basses on this album have been 1958 Fender P-Bass, 1963 Fender Jazz bass, 1962(?) Gibson Thunderbird (2 pickup model)" - June 18
"Today's gear update: @xocoleyf currently playing thru a 1978 Rickenbacker thru a Maestro Brassmaster into a Reeves bass head! Wicked..." - June 18
"The Shredder comes into town today so we can begin figuring out how to build up a new beautiful wall of sound" - June 13
""@brendo_91 the recording on Oceania is going really well/Nicole is almost halfway through bass tracking. then guitar overdubs x1000" - June 10
"For you trivia buffs the first SP drummer was a gray Alesis HR-16 drum machine! I'll have @studiodog post up a pic x" - June 8
"Working on a new idea for 'Oceania' called 'Pretty Boy'. Need some help so I'm going to enlist the 'first' SP drummer for backup" - June 8
"Studio today: Nicole tracking 'Helios'/4 track demo transfers and checking 63 gish/siamese era 8 track tapes (over 250 titles)+FUZZ tests" - June 8
"My Love is Winter is done! 9 to go..." - June 7
"2 down, 10 to go for @xocoleyf on the bass. Next up: My Love is Winter" - June 7
"Currently Crushing Skulls with the bass stylings of @xocoleyf Macho Man says 'ohh yeauuhhh' Ultimate Warrior nods head *slowly*" - June 3
"My Oceania post http://tinyurl.com/3sjmrbw" - June 3
"And so begin endless discussions of what brand of bass strings to use..." - June 2
"As the last crash cymbal starts to fade, all eyes turn lovingly to Nicole @xocoleyf for endless oodles of bass..." - June 2
"Only 2 left to be tracked on drums, and @mikebyrnedrums is done. Then it's bass, bass, bass with @xocoleyf before the gtr army shows up" - May 30
"i must be stuck in the past if i am dusting off all these old fuzz and phaser pedals *cue BC wiping dust off electric mistress/tear in eye*" - May 26
"working on a new song called 'glissandra'...it's pretty, and loud. pretty and loud always works for me..." - May 23
"@whitebilko no, no instrumentals for Oceania, although there are some really pretty musical passages in the songs" - May 22
"Recording with @xocoleyf and @mikebyrnedrums today. 7 songs worth of drums down, 4 to go!" - May 20
"Got drums on 4 songs now, about 6-8 to go! @mikebyrnedrums kicking out the jams..." - May 16
"Rock 'n roll...we start working on Oceania tonight!" - May 10

[RottingApples]

gyang333, on 09 June 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Idk... It's screaming Pomp and Circumstance.

30 seconds may not be much to go on, but it already sounds infinitely better than P&C.

The only thing the two have in common are being "softer" ending tracks. But by that, I'd say Wildflowers has more in common with Strayz than P&C.

[ItsSoPringles]

still dont see why pomp is such a hated song

[vescret]

yeah, what's wrong with Pomp?

[LostSoul]

(Before anyone takes this as an 'attack', I neglected to read the past 4 pages or so)

I missed the samples, and am ever so glad I did.

Are you people really so daft, that you would judge a record from a 30 second clip? You can't tell shit from those clips. I've learned to steer clear of album previews for the sake of purity. I almost never indulge in them when an album I am anticipating has them put up. The last and final time I did that was with Manson's newest one. Not that it is an amazing record, but it is his most solid output since Holy Wood. Now, what did myself and others do at the NIN board when the 30-second samples leaked? Trashed them. Said that the songs sounded horrible and could not possibly redeem themselves in the full product. And guess what? Nearly all of us ate our words when the record itself dropped.

The same thing applies to Oceania. A 30-second snippet tells you nothing of the song to be. General vibe, I suppose, but there are so many twists and turns to songs that you would be foolish to think that the entire song will be representative of that single little snippet.

I have nothing but high hopes for this record, and I don't want to do it any favors or injustices by previewing it. If I like what I hear, I am judging it based on pieces to a puzzle. One which I cannot even fathom how it will end up sounding. I am sugar coating an album I have not even heard more than 6.5 minutes of. And if I dislike what I hear from the little slivers of an album, then I am touting an ill-formed opinion on said record. All for 6.5 minutes.

Sheer stupidity. You are all welcome to indulge in these clips, and enjoy them. As well as critique them. I just refuse to align myself on either side of the spectrum until I have listened to the album in its entirety, track 1 to 13. On good headphones, hooked up to my stereo system without any distractions. Quasar. Through. Wildflower.

And I will be avoiding the stream altogether, as well. Why would you listen to an enormously hyped 'come back' record by one of your favorite (or your favorite) artists through shitty lap top speakers or a bad rip burned to CD? I may not like Billy as a person (AT ALL), and I may despise 95% of his 2007-2011 output, but look. This man & his band have recorded 3 of my favorite albums of all time, and countless other highly respectable bside compilations and albums from 1991-2000. The least I can do is respect all the great things he has given me and listen to this record unbiased, in good quality with no distractions. To do anything but to me is blasphemy.

Oh, and one thing. After enduring the horror that was Teargarden, I thought we'd all learned a lesson. Teargarden had potential, but he made the wrong decisions. To top it all off, he was extremely inconsistent with the song releases. Having to wait all that time for a single fucking song, only to realize it is merely good? Or even horrible? Fucking hell...

I've had it with judging an album on such baseless grounds. Perhaps TbK would have been better received by all, had he kept his time and released it more consistently? Or all at once as a traditional album? Who knows. All I know is it left a bitter ass taste in my mouth that I wish not to replicate this time. Listening to the album a sample at a time, at a stutter no less, will certainly ensure that.

For those who wish to hear the samples, enjoy them. And those who will partake in the stream on the 12th, happy listening. :)/>

[ItsSoPringles]

vescret, on 09 June 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

yeah, what's wrong with Pomp?

i guess its the la la la's that kill it for people, yah they dont sound the best and it'd be better without them but i still think its a....dare i say it....its a beautiful sounding song and i remember getting goosebumps the first time i heard that guitar rip in at the end, its also the only time i truly thing billy's vocals actually sounded good on the entire album. i can understand people disliking it but its treated as one of the absolute worst billy has done even by zeitgeist defenders which is what i dont understand

im legitimately asking here for people that hate this song, whats the problem with it outside the la la la's