[Arachnea]

http://www.expressmi...g-pumpkins.html

If you only know one thing about the reunited Smashing Pumpkins, it's probably that they're not actually the Smashing Pumpkins—at least, not as you remember them. Billy Corgan is now the band's lone original member, and to many longtime fans, especially those who came of age to the band's alienation anthems in the '90s and still cling to their early impressions of what the band represented, that makes these new Smashing Pumpkins illegitimate. Never mind that Corgan had always been the near-exclusive creative force behind the band, writing (and usually recording) with scant input from his one-time band mates, and that he has every legal claim to the band name. By unceremoniously replacing those three other faces on the group's Siamese Dream-era posters—by demonstrating that his band mates were and probably always had been dispensable—he has trampled on fans' powerful memories of not only a favorite band, but also of their very youth.

Corgan knows this. He takes a kind of pride in it.

“I did an interview with Greg Kot a while back,” Corgan recalls, “And he said, 'Why are you still using the band name? Why not tour under a new name?' And I said, 'Greg, you've known me for 20 years. I'm playing under the name precisely because people don't want me to play under the name.' People's annoyance at the continuance of the band name just hands me another hand grenade.”

Reinvention, Corgan reasons, has always been intrinsic to the band—“We were never about just one thing,” he insists. “There was never a Smashing Pumpkins record that sounded like the others”—and this new lineup is, by that logic, just another reinvention.

“Look, I'm in the same position as a lot of fans,” Corgan says. “All the time people ask me if I want to see some old band, and I'll say, 'Well, who's still in the band?' I think that way, too. I'm that shallow. But I want to challenge that train of thought. The Smashing Pumpkins is all about poking a hole in that construct, and, if we do this next album right, that's what we'll have done."

Corgan is referring to Oceania, the upcoming Smashing Pumpkins album that as of our conversation late last month he had just finished recording. If the album is good, he reasons, it will put to rest questions of the group's legitimacy.

“If we can turn the corner with Oceania, and get people to say, 'Oh, there's still gas in this tank,' it will blow up all that falsity,” he explains. “What would people have left to complain about? 'Oh, he looks old?'”

It's hard to argue with that logic: A good album goes a long way toward winning people over. And, no doubt, part of the reason the resurrected Smashing Pumpkins have been written off by so many fans is that their comeback record, 2007's Zeitgeist, was not a good album. Its brutal, ugly guitar assault captured none of the majesty of the band's most beloved work, nor any of the sweetness that ran through even the band's heaviest work. Corgan concedes it wasn't the album he had wanted to make.

“I really wanted to return to psychedelic music, but I was surprised that I just couldn't find it in me,” he says. “I tried, and eventually I gave in and said, 'Well, this is what's coming out of me.' I didn't want to keep playing dark proto-metal that whole time.” Corgan doesn't outright disown the album, at least not in our conversation, but the disapproving tone in his voice when he uses the phrase “dark proto-metal” suggests that he probably feels the same way about it as everybody else.

Fans already uneasy with the idea of a partially reunited Smashing Pumpkins can be forgiven for not giving Corgan a second chance after an album so unlovable, but his subsequent work has, if nothing else, been truer to the band name. The mostly (and, following Zeitgeist, mercifully) acoustic 2008 American Gothic EP showed Corgan could still write songs with heart, and with the band's ongoing, 44-song project Teargarden by Kaleidyscope, Corgan has reclaimed the psychedelic muse that proved so elusive during the Zeitgeist sessions.

Oceania will be part of that Teargarden project, “an album within an album,” and to hear Corgan describe it, it should sound a whole lot closer to the Smashing Pumpkins full-length that fans were probably hoping for the last time around. “It's got an epic quality to it,” he says. “It's probably one of the prettiest records I've made, but it's still very loud. There's some shoegazey elements in there.”

He's proud of the work, and excited about it, and not just in the way that every musician is excited about his latest album. This is going to be the record that proves everybody wrong, the record that vindicates him as the lone heir to the Smashing Pumpkins.

“Enough arty games of perception—at the end of the day, it's about the music,” Corgan says. Since drummer Jimmy Chamberlin left the band in 2009, he says, “I've had enough time to recalibrate the lineup, to make the album that I want to make. Enough talk. Let's see what I've got.”

That kind of chest-beating strikes me as a pretty reckless way to set expectations for an album. I tell Corgan that it seems like he's positioning Oceania as a do-or-die, make-or-break record.

“It is,” he says.

[ItsSoPringles]

Arachnea, on 12 October 2011 - 04:49 PM, said:

That kind of chest-beating strikes me as a pretty reckless way to set expectations for an album. I tell Corgan that it seems like he's positioning Oceania as a do-or-die, make-or-break record.

“It is,” he says.

........awww......shit. dont know how to feel about this, im sure the album will be fine but......do or die is kinda.....offsetting, not about the albums quality but saying do or die about anything is not a good sign to me,

though on the more positive side, billy seems about as passionate as you can get over this album so thats a good sign

[mayday27]

I give that interviewer/article/write up a D- Main topic was "why you call yourself SP" and "vindication to have SP" Vomit. Can you write something anymore boring?

The only thing good about it is BCs enthusiasm at the end.

[Burma8]

Well if reception of the actual album goes as well as reception of the live performances then 'Do' is looking better than 'Die'... fingers crossed.

ps Goddammit! I really liked Zeitgeist!

[JSapp]

I agree with Mayfair. Why the hell does anyone care about what Billy wants to call his band? Trampleing on his fans very youth? Thats a little much. I do like Bill's passion for the album.

[ItsSoPringles]

Burma8, on 12 October 2011 - 05:27 PM, said:

Well if reception of the actual album goes as well as reception of the live performances then 'Do' is looking better than 'Die'... fingers crossed.

ps Goddammit! I really liked Zeitgeist!

i know right what the fuck, peopel are supposse dot grow to like the album they hate, the bands not supposed to despise it too......fuck everything, i guess this will be like face to face's ignorance is bliss album.

[JSapp]

Burma8, on 12 October 2011 - 05:27 PM, said:

ps Goddammit! I really liked Zeitgeist!

Me too! Listened to the whole album just today.

[ItsSoPringles]

JSapp, on 12 October 2011 - 05:35 PM, said:

Me too! Listened to the whole album just today.

RIP chances of zeitgeist getting any recognition

i dont know maybe in 10 years people will look back on it and enjoy the album

[JSapp]

ItsSoPringles, on 12 October 2011 - 05:37 PM, said:

RIP chances of zeitgeist getting any recognition

i dont know maybe in 10 years people will look back on it and enjoy the album

I know. It sucks. Those of us who like it are even shunned by some in the SP fan base. If you can't fit in with SP fans you can't fit in anywhere! Maybe we are just ahead of the curve..... But I doubt that lol

[Arachnea]

Do not get too upset about it. Billy said similar things when Adore was poorly received by the fan base. Now, after he has had some distance from it, he appreciates the album and what it represented. The same could happen with Zeitgeist.

[orchidaii]

I like Billy's answer on how he does it to annoy people - hehe <3/>

[Hyrrow]

Billy's written good songs his entire career! He didn't always package them in good albums though.
There was good and bad stuff on Zeitgeist. TFE also was half good and half b-sides. There were mostly nice songs on MSOTS. Machina had mostly good songs, badly produced. Adore should have been two separate albums, an accoustic and an electronic one. MCIS and SD were 99% perfect.

[ShamanO]

I am a proud Zeitgeist fan! That album is still awesome to me even after almost 4 1/2 years. I am glad he made that album and according to his own words.....“We were never about just one thing,” "But I want to challenge that train of thought. The Smashing Pumpkins is all about poking a hole in that construct,"

[serotoninsage]

lol @ people who feel intimidated by liking ZG just because its maker doesn't like it

This post has been edited by serotoninsage: 12 October 2011 - 07:58 PM

[frednirv632]

ShamanO, on 12 October 2011 - 07:29 PM, said:

...4 1/2 years...

woah

[Simon]

frednirv632, on 12 October 2011 - 08:16 PM, said:

woah

Ya. My thoughts exactly.
:drama:/>

[orange & black]

Well, I kind of look at it like, if Zeitgeist hadn't been made, we might not have Oceania today. So, it at least served a purpose.

As far as using the Smashing Pumpkins name--I dunno, I haven't been around since the beginning, but I was really into SP starting in '94, SD & MCIS are by far my favorites...and I have to say, I'm more excited about the current lineup and album than anything in the last 15 years, at least.

[dudehitscar]

I don't think billy is saying that Zeitgeist is a bad album. I think he's just saying that it's not what he wanted to present at the time.

"he wanted to go psychedelic, zeitgeist was the wrong album at the wrong time" does not equal 'album with bad songs'.

I mean I really dislike most of Zeitgeist but I think the Z fans are getting their feelings hurt for no reason.

[Feriluce]

Zeitgeist is almost 5 years old already???????

Anyway, as long as Billy is happy with what he and the band has created then I am eager to give it a listen. The live versions of the new songs already have my attention though, so I am eagerly awaiting this new album.

[soonergiant65]

I agree with a lot of you guys. I really liked Zeitgeist, and to hear some of those songs live (Tarantula, That's The Way, United States) during last years tour made me like it even more. So I don't care what anyone says, I'll always like it. Oh yeah, just in case anyone is wondering I'm not young I'm old school. :sp:/>

[nasalscarecrow]

I'm definitely a Zeitgeist fan, plus even though it wasn't that long ago, a lot has changed in my life since its release so it brings back happy memories.

[ItsSoPringles]

dudehitscar, on 12 October 2011 - 11:52 PM, said:

I don't think billy is saying that Zeitgeist is a bad album. I think he's just saying that it's not what he wanted to present at the time.

"he wanted to go psychedelic, zeitgeist was the wrong album at the wrong time" does not equal 'album with bad songs'.

I mean I really dislike most of Zeitgeist but I think the Z fans are getting their feelings hurt for no reason.

no he has straight up called zeitgeist the wrong album at the wrong time, he does legitimately dislike the album

we probably wont ever hear a zeitgeist song live again

[dudehitscar]

ItsSoPringles, on 13 October 2011 - 02:06 AM, said:

no he has straight up called zeitgeist the wrong album at the wrong time, he does legitimately dislike the album

we probably wont ever hear a zeitgeist song live again

his statement suggests there is a right time for an album like that. This doesn't mean he thinks United States is a terrible song now.

We will hear zeitgeist songs again.

[JSapp]

orange & black, on 12 October 2011 - 09:54 PM, said:

Well, I kind of look at it like, if Zeitgeist hadn't been made, we might not have Oceania today. So, it at least served a purpose.

As far as using the Smashing Pumpkins name--I dunno, I haven't been around since the beginning, but I was really into SP starting in '94, SD & MCIS are by far my favorites...and I have to say, I'm more excited about the current lineup and album than anything in the last 15 years, at least.

I agree. Maybe not quite 15 years but a nothing he has done has had me this excited in a long time.

[Arachnea]

I did not feel like making a new thread for this one. This one is more of the same that has already been discussed in other interviews. I have highlighted some parts I thought were interesting.

http://www.detnews.c...h-more-attitude

The recently completed "Oceania" is seen as an album inside Corgan's larger "Kaleidyscope" vision, and Corgan calls it the "best record I've made in a long time." He hopes to have it in stores late this year or early next year.

Also on the horizon is a series of reissues of the Pumpkins' catalog. "Gish" and "Siamese Dream" are due out by the end of the year; "Pisces Iscariot" is due on Record Store Day in 2012, and the rest of the original band's material — including a pair of solo acoustic albums Corgan recorded following the breakup of his post-Pumpkins outfit Zwan — are due in late 2012 and 2013. For Corgan, going back through the old material is "an opportunity to appreciate what you did right, what you did wrong, and also to recontextualize," he says.

The reissues aren't the only way Corgan has been looking back; for the past year he's also been working on what he calls a "spiritual book" about his life, which has caused him to "dig up a lot of memories I probably would prefer just to leave alone."

But the process has helped him come to grips with his past, he says.

"I think being accountable is a part of healing, but there are a lot of uncomfortable things you have to admit to yourself," he says. He cops to making mistakes and says there are things he would have handled differently, "but that's one thing about getting older: It's not as cataclysmic to admit to myself that I'm not a perfect person."

And on the band's last tour, Corgan went into long-winded rants directed at fans, adopting the classic role of "heel" — wrestle-speak for "bad guy" as opposed to "babyface" which is a "good guy." Success then is measured by how much you can get fans to hate you. His plan backfired, and fans simply came away hating him.

Corgan enthusiastically admits to playing the heel role at times, saying fans "just aren't sophisticated enough to know that I'm playing around."
But now he says he's changed his tune. "That guy's been put to bed," Corgan says. "I'm babyface from now on."

[ItsSoPringles]

dudehitscar, on 13 October 2011 - 02:16 AM, said:

his statement suggests there is a right time for an album like that. This doesn't mean he thinks United States is a terrible song now.

We will hear zeitgeist songs again.

no the key word was WRONG ALBUM, wrong time just makes it worse, theres no denying it at this point, billy hates zeitgeist, just not enough to disown it

[reinsdorfsucks]

Arachnea, on 13 October 2011 - 06:06 AM, said:

— including a pair of solo acoustic albums Corgan recorded following the breakup of his post-Pumpkins outfit Zwan — are due in late 2012 and 2013.

Are those the "Chicago" songs?

[Arachnea]

I pray that they are. I have been looking forward to those recordings for a long time.

[RottingApples]

reinsdorfsucks, on 13 October 2011 - 07:07 AM, said:

Are those the "Chicago" songs?

It sounds like it. Good to hear they're still moving forward with that material.

[JSapp]

ItsSoPringles, on 13 October 2011 - 02:06 AM, said:

we probably wont ever hear a zeitgeist song live again

I hope thats not true. Tarantula is freaking awesome live

[mayday27]

"fans are not sophisticated enough to know I'm playing around". What a load of bullshit. How about just admitting that they were tantrums.

[ShamanO]

we better hear Zeitgeist songs again. Songs like Stellar, Mabelle, Neverlost, Death From Above are not all metal-like and I'm sure he can flip those songs into some psychedelic song at least Neverlost, but damn Tarantula, United States, Starz, and Doomsday Clock are some good jams. Don't care what Billy says-it's good stuff

This post has been edited by ShamanO: 13 October 2011 - 07:49 AM

[orchidaii]

I asked Billy about the Chicago songs on twitter - hopefully he sees it! That statement in the article just came out of the blue :o/>

[mayday27]

I can't believe he would blame a lack of sophistication of fans for his tantrums. Number one it's insulting fans number two who would even believe that, number three maybe it's more like his lack of sophistication for recognizing basic what a tantrum is ( refer to your nearest two year old having one). Lame

You want to have a nice band- fan relationship? This is not the way to go. I'm counting on you being sophisticated enough to know why...

[nasalscarecrow]

mayday27, on 13 October 2011 - 09:26 AM, said:

I can't believe he would blame a lack of sophistication of fans for his tantrums. Number one it's insulting fans number two who would even believe that, number three maybe it's more like his lack of sophistication for recognizing basic what a tantrum is ( refer to your nearest two year old having one). Lame

You want to have a nice band- fan relationship? This is not the way to go. I'm counting on you being sophisticated enough to know why...

Maybe he expects us to be sophisticated enough to not take that seriously. ;)/>

[Arachnea]

Yes, it was sort of harsh, mayday. I also thought it was unfair of him that he spent the past few years chastising fans for complaining about the lineup, and yet he freely admits that he is just as shallow when it comes to other bands. He just does not like it when it is done to him.

[mayday27]

It's kind of strange to talk about "accountability" and 2 seconds later come out with that... Dur...

Arachnea it just makes you feel all spiritually enlightened inside doesn't it? .....uh?

[Arachnea]

:lol:/>

Yes. I was elated to read that sentence from Billy (about accountability) and then I came across the latter one. Yet, that is Billy in a nutshell. He may be the most contrary man that ever lived. :shifty:/>

[dudehitscar]

ItsSoPringles, on 13 October 2011 - 06:25 AM, said:

no the key word was WRONG ALBUM, wrong time just makes it worse, theres no denying it at this point, billy hates zeitgeist, just not enough to disown it

http://kokugamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/lex-luthor-wrong-590x245.jpg

ShamanO, on 13 October 2011 - 07:49 AM, said:

we better hear Zeitgeist songs again. Songs like Stellar, Mabelle, Neverlost, Death From Above are not all metal-like and I'm sure he can flip those songs into some psychedelic song at least Neverlost, but damn Tarantula, United States, Starz, and Doomsday Clock are some good jams. Don't care what Billy says-it's good stuff

what is Tarantula about?

[AlienCloak]

"Pisces Iscariot" is due on Record Store Day in 2012. Looong wait

This post has been edited by AlienCloak: 13 October 2011 - 04:12 PM

[RottingApples]

AlienCloak, on 13 October 2011 - 04:12 PM, said:

"Pisces Iscariot" is due on Record Store Day in 2012. Looong wait

We'll have Gish, Siamese Dream, and Oceania to tide us over till then. ;)/>

[Fernando]

ItsSoPringles, on 13 October 2011 - 02:06 AM, said:

no he has straight up called zeitgeist the wrong album at the wrong time, he does legitimately dislike the album

we probably wont ever hear a zeitgeist song live again

Months ago he has said the only thing he would change in Zeitgeist was the production. He likes the album.

What he is saying here is "I thought that reforming the band with only Jimmy and making an album like it was before would be the right step. I was wrong.Now we are a band, making an album that feels honest even if I'm the only original member here. Oceania is the right album and now is the right time."

That's it.

[The Elliott]

I used to think that it was unwise to raise everyone's expectations like this, but I think I now understand him. Very ballsy.

Oh, and Zeitgeist is a good album.