lots of people on here say Radiohead suck and untalented and Radiohead is a rock and roll band... would you suggest that NIN isn't rock and roll either.
Hmm. Good question. I loved early Radiohead but I think they stopped being what I would classify, I being the key word, a rock band in about 1997. Perhaps they are spearheading an entirely new genre and if that is their goal and they are successful, good for them.
Nine Inch Nails? I watch their performance at Woodstock in 1994 and it is hard to not call that rock and roll, different as it is from what is real rock and roll to me (Rolling Stones, etc.). So yeah, NIN is rock and roll. Trent has become far more experimental and electronic over the years but I suppose it is still rock and roll.
eh, I don't think it's jealousy. i attribute it to a backlash effect, where people tend to be more vocally adamant in their dislike of something when its otherwise met with extreme praise, popularity etc... just human nature, and I don't think it's unique to Radiohead or any other popular musician
as far as my take on Radiohead's catalouge (not that anyone cares), but I generally agree that they peaked 95-00. OK Computer and The Bends are perfect alternative guitar rock albums. I can give it a listen anytime though... they followed their own muse instead of repeating the formula, and they made some other great music as a result.. it's probably bought them a bit of leeway from fans, critics etc when they do make an occasional misstep...
also I think there's quite a bit of hubiris in the anti-Radiohead camp when they insinuate people are only into the band because its some sort of decade-long hipster trend. I can't stand Vampire Weekend. I think Animal Collective are unique, but generally unlistenable... but i don't think there's a hipster brainwashing cult forcing people to like those bands.. they're just not my personal favorites...
flippingsweet779, on 22 April 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:
Radiohead got even better post OK computer and OK computer is nearly flawless...
ok computer was their masterpiece and pinnacle, and probably always will be.
Parksey, on 20 April 2012 - 01:03 AM, said:
Disagree completely, pablo honey aside, not that I could ever convince you otherwise. In Rainbows is their best album IMO.
They deserve every praise they get. There are plenty of other bands out there that genuinely do get unwarranted praise, not that it should really matter. Corgan only really gets blasted by Pitchfork and NME, other than that he gets pretty fair reviews (apart from the slating of Adore and to a lesser extent Machina).
"slating"?
anyway...with the bends and ok computer they mixed innovation, experimentation, great basic rock songwriting, dymanics, and some real emotion beneath the pointed obscurity, artsiness ans sarcasm. most of what they have done since then--specifically the whole kid a/amnesiac era that saw critics elevating them to godlike status--has been nothing BUT experimentation and art-for-art's-sake knob twiddling, consciously abandoning writing actual, linear, relateable SONGS and generally being a rock band.
if that gets you off, power to you. i can't connect with it at all. give me the bends, ok, about half of kid a (mostly side 2) and most of hail to the thief; you can keep the rest. they went from the promise of being an AMAZING band to being merely a sometimes-really good one.
LostSoul, on 20 April 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:
I think that as-is, Oceania, Pale Horse, My Love Is Winter, and Pinwheels are excellent. I also think that so long as the production doesn't drag them under, these songs have the potential to stand up to the old material. Easy.
Quasar & Panopticon, not so much. I suppose Quasar is a good "intro song", but it just doesn't seem genuine, and doesn't go anywhere for me. Still decent. I'll take it over G.L.O.W. any day of the week. Panopticon is better, definitely. Just mildly mundane to my ears is all.
You can argue all you want, but the four songs I mentioned have the Pumpkins' vibe I so miss. Pale Horse is completely reminiscent of Adore in both its instrumentation & atmosphere, as well as its tear-jerker lyrics. Instrumentally, My Love Is Winter & Pinwheels sound gorgeous. They certainly blew me away live, and the live boots still send a warmness through me that I've not felt with BC since Machina/Machina II.
The title track may seem a bit choppy to some, but I think the unexpected twists & turns add to its appeal, rather than detract. And, well...there's this:
Best part from 1:48 to 5:11. The first like, minute or two especially.
wow...nothing of the new stuff has come close to "blowing me away", live or otherwise. and i was at that t5 show.
Simon Belmont, on 21 April 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:
I think Pablo Honey is shit. I still love The Bends and most of OK Computer. I like about 1/2 of Kid A, and that is about it. They lost me at Amnesiac, I thought Hail to the Thief was just more of the same, In Rainbows is just fucking noise, and I have only listened to heard, under protest, about 3 tracks on King of Limbs because I just don't care to give them any more of my time at this point, especially for an album even most diehard Radiohead fans seem to be trying reeeaaaally hard to like.
this is pretty much my exact view too, except for 2 points:
-ALL of ok computer is amazing.
-hail to the thief really is VERY different from kid a and amnesiac. more rock, more melody, more emotion, more energy, less bullshit. still a little long, and RELENTLESSLY dark (one thing i can't deal with in ANY band and something that makes the pumpkins and the cure both great and misunderstood)...try these again if you like: there there, 2+2=5, myxomatosis, wolf at the door.
which half of kid a, by the way? i quite like optimisitic, idioteque, morning bell, and motion picture soundtrack...the first two tracks drive me buggy and piss me off. the others are all "interesting" but not nearly as GOOD as critics want to tell you.
Simon Belmont, on 21 April 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:
There is challenging the listener, and then there is the listener being too much of a pretentious hipster to admit to their pretentious hipster friends that they may not be as much of a hipster because they may not be utterly floored by something Radiohead has squeezed out. This is what I hate most about Radiohead, just their fanbase, and their refusal to admit when they don't like something. For example, a friend of mine, who is a HUGE Radiohead fan, and a HUGE hipster, said this exact quote when KoL came out. "I don't know what to think about it yet, I mean, um, it's A-MAAAZ-ING, because it's Radiohead, I just haven't gotten it yet. I need to listen to it a few more times, and then I'm sure I'll love it. I mean, I love it already, because it's Radiohead, I'm just not sure in what way yet." I said "You know, the world won't collapse on itself if you admit out loud that you don't like a Radiohead album."
haha EXACTLY...that guy is a douche.
in 1997, on the heels of the bends and ok computer, i was ENTHRALLED with radiohead. they'd become my 3rd favorite band and were a threat to the cure at #2, given the recent cure record and how fucking unreal okc was...but i was still honest enough when i heard kid a to be like "um...really? no. nuh-uh. this is not genius, this is not CLOSE to being as good as the last record, and this might not even be that good compared to ANYTHING." and i am old school and DO attach to artists i like loyally. but a spade still be a spade.
GracefulSwan, on 21 April 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:
I'm anticipating their next album to be a record of pure silence, along with comments from fans of "hey, it's art! They're changing music as we know it!".
For the record, I like Radiohead, or at least their earlier work. The turning point for me was when OK Computer was released, they actually latched on to the fact that fans thought the likes of 'Fitter, Happier' was anything more than a joke, and realised that they could stop putting effort into making albums and instead produce obscure electronic sound collections. I liked them when they used actual skill to make music, when they played guitars. As far as I'm concerned 'Fitter, Happier', which is actually made by typing words into the Mac program SimpleText, takes zero skill to produce. I can type words into that program and call it a song, it doesn't mean it is one.
the words were a biting statement, though, and there was a reason they had a computer speak them. THAT song WAS "brilliant" innovation. not "everything in its right place" (inits riiiiight plaaaace...in its riiiight plaaace...in its riiiight....)", a song everyone went apeshit over.
dudehitscar, on 21 April 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:
Exactly. Did sb listen to the album... It's more tuneful than ok computer.
Pablo Honey: C-
The Bends: A
OK Computer: A+
Kid A: B
Amnesiac: C
Hail to the Thief: A
In Rainbows: C-
King of Limbs: D
Gish: B
Siamese Dream: A+
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness: A+
Adore: B
MACHINA/The Machines of God: A
MACHINA II/The Friends and Enemies of Modern Music: C-
Zeitgeist: K
Teargarden by Kaleidoscope: D
Oceania: ?
Interests:Music, family, movies, social progress, hiking, travel
Posted 22 April 2012 - 03:06 PM
flippingsweet779, on 22 April 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:
Radiohead got even better post OK computer and OK computer is nearly flawless...
Naw. As much as I like radioheads stuff past that it doesn't come close to the perfect blend of art, rock, songwriting, and originality that Ok Computer has.
I suppose I should have said that I personally like Radiohead better post OK computer although I do really love The Bends and OK computer. I'm not really debating that OK computer is their masterpiece.
Pablo Honey: C
The Bends: B+
OK Computer: A
Kid A: A
Amnesiac: B
Hail to the thief: A+
In Rainbows: B
King of Limbs: C+
And Pumpkins albums since everyone's doing it
Gish: B+
SD: A+
MCIS: A+
Adore: B+
Machina 1: B
Machina 2: B
ZG: F+
Pablo Honey: C-
The Bends: B+
OK Computer: A
Kid A: A-
Amnesiac: B-
Hail to the Thief: D+
In Rainbows: A
The King of Limbs: F
Gish: B+
Siamese Dream: A
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness: A
Adore: B+
Machina / machines of god: A-
Machina II/ friends and enemies of modern music: B+
Zeitgeist: C+
Teargarden by Kaliedyscope (EP 1, EP 2, "Lightning Strikes" and "Owata"): B
Interests:Music, family, movies, social progress, hiking, travel
Posted 22 April 2012 - 05:11 PM
Radiohead
Pablo Honey: D
The Bends: A-
Iron lung EP: B-
OK Computer: A+
Kid A: B
Amnesiac: B-
I might be wrong Live: B
Hail to the thief: B
In Rainbows: A-
King of Limbs: C+
Smashing pumpkins
Gish: B+
SD: A+
Pisces: A-
Earphoria: B
MCIS: A+
TAFH: A-
Adore: A
Machina 1: A-
Machina 2: B
ZG: D
AG: D+
Tbk: C+
[/quote]
LOL. You have no idea who I am. Your remarks are funny though. If you could see where I will spending the next week and with whom, you'd change your tune. But I digress.
I suppose I should have said that I personally like Radiohead better post OK computer although I do really love The Bends and OK computer. I'm not really debating that OK computer is their masterpiece.
Pablo Honey: C
The Bends: B+
OK Computer: A
Kid A: A
Amnesiac: B
Hail to the thief: A+
In Rainbows: B
King of Limbs: C+
And Pumpkins albums since everyone's doing it
Gish: B+
SD: A+
MCIS: A+
Adore: B+
Machina 1: B
Machina 2: B
ZG: F+
Although Pisces isn't technically an album, its so good I think it should be and therefore would like to add my rating for it.
Pisces Iscariot: A (A+ if the two covers were replaced with a couple other excellent B sides from that era to which there are plenty)
Pablo Honey D
The Bends B-
OK Computer A
Kid A A-
Amnesiac C+
Hail To The Thief C+
In Rainbows B
The King Of Limbs C-
Gish B+
Siamese Dream A-
Pisces Iscariot A
Mellon Collie & the Infinite Sadness A+
The Aeroplane Flies High A-
Adore A
Machina B
Machina II B+
Zeitgeist D-
American Gothic B-
Teargarden C
Oceania ?
Yah, I know it's different from all the other albums. But that's what SP does. They weren't going to come out and do more of the same stuff. They never do. Can't people appreciate Zeitgeist for what it is?
I admit, it wasn't what I expected at first either, and I wasn't sure what to think. But it really grew on me (like most SP stuff does) and I got it. You can never listen to an SP album with expectations - because that interferes with the experience. If you are expecting x, and wanting it to be x, but it's actually y - you're going to be frustrated - even if y is really good. That's when you have to step back and just look at y and feel it for what it is.
I enjoy most of the songs on Zeitgeist, and most of the songs from the era. And those I don't particularly enjoy much, I certainly appreciate and respect. United States, Stellar, Ma Belle, Starz, Tarantula, Doomsday Clock, Neverlost, Death From Above, 7 Shades of Black...all good, enjoyable songs. Come on (let's go!) and Bring the Light, Pomp and Circumstances were certainly different - but they were still good songs!! And if "different" isn't your cup of tea - half of Mellon Collie was "different" in the same vein.
Also, can't forget Gossamer, American Gothic, and all the If All Goes Wrong songs...all part of the Zeitgeist era. People bash it to no end, but it really was a great era.
Now I feel like Teargarden (in theory) has been a good era, but I feel some of the songs officially released have been weaker material, or just lost what was special about them in the studio (Tom Tom). In other words, it's been rather sucky on our end, but a LOT of great stuff seems to have been written/demoed that hasn't seen the light of day. The biggest tragedy of the Teargarden era so far has been the tons of Teargarden material that Billy shelved, which all sounded great from what I heard, and had a lot of potential. I think most fans are generally disappointed with the 10 official releases so far, as a whole...this could have been remedied with just better song selection and studio process...But I'm still hoping...someday...
Pablo Honey: D
The Bends: A-
OK Computer: B
Kid A: C+
Amnesiac: D-
Hail to the Thief: D
In Rainbows: D-
King of Limbs: Don't care.
Gish C-
Siamese Dream B+
Pisces Iscariot A
Mellon Collie & the Infinite Sadness A+
The Aeroplane Flies High A
Adore A+
Machina A-
Machina II B-
Zeitgeist D-
American Gothic C- (I've decided I really only like The Rose March. The other 3 are D material)
Teargarden D-
snail33, on 22 April 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:
this is pretty much my exact view too, except for 2 points:
-ALL of ok computer is amazing.
-hail to the thief really is VERY different from kid a and amnesiac. more rock, more melody, more emotion, more energy, less bullshit. still a little long, and RELENTLESSLY dark (one thing i can't deal with in ANY band and something that makes the pumpkins and the cure both great and misunderstood)...try these again if you like: there there, 2+2=5, myxomatosis, wolf at the door.
which half of kid a, by the way? i quite like optimisitic, idioteque, morning bell, and motion picture soundtrack...the first two tracks drive me buggy and piss me off. the others are all "interesting" but not nearly as GOOD as critics want to tell you.
Myxomatosis is the sole reason Hail To The Thief isn't an outright failure of an album to me. I don't like anything else on it, but I'll admit that is a pretty good song. As for which half of Kid A...half was an overstatement. I really only like 3 tracks on it. Idioteque, How to Disappear Completely, and In Limbo, and of those three, Idioteque is the only one I really sincerely like, the other two are just ok, they don't bore me like the rest of the album.
This post has been edited by Simon Belmont: 23 April 2012 - 12:22 PM
Pablo Honey: D
The Bends: A-
OK Computer: B
Kid A: C+
Amnesiac: D-
Hail to the Thief: D
In Rainbows: D-
King of Limbs: Don't care.
Gish C-
Siamese Dream B+
Pisces Iscariot A
Mellon Collie & the Infinite Sadness A+
The Aeroplane Flies High A
Adore A+
Machina A-
Machina II B-
Zeitgeist D-
American Gothic C- (I've decided I really only like The Rose March. The other 3 are D material)
Teargarden D-
Myxomatosis is the sole reason Hail To The Thief isn't an outright failure of an album to me. I don't like anything else on it, but I'll admit that is a pretty good song. As for which half of Kid A...half was an overstatement. I really only like 3 tracks on it. Idioteque, How to Disappear Completely, and In Limbo, and of those three, Idioteque is the only one I really sincerely like, the other two are just ok, they don't bore me like the rest of the album.
Myxomatosis is the worst song on the album. "Scatterbrain", "2=2=5", "A wolf at the Door", and "There There", and "Go to Sleep" are all amazing and in my opinion the best stuff radiohead ever wrote.
So, Oceania isn't going to be reviewed before its release date, huh?
Stop trying to get people back on topic!
I guess it will be reviewed by some people in the one week or whatever between the streaming and commercial release date... But all those reviews will probably link to where people can just stream it and decide for themselves.
KingBelteshazzar, on 23 April 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:
lol, Zeitgeist is so under-rated. Honestly.
Yah, I know it's different from all the other albums. But that's what SP does. They weren't going to come out and do more of the same stuff. They never do. Can't people appreciate Zeitgeist for what it is?
I admit, it wasn't what I expected at first either, and I wasn't sure what to think. But it really grew on me (like most SP stuff does) and I got it. You can never listen to an SP album with expectations - because that interferes with the experience. If you are expecting x, and wanting it to be x, but it's actually y - you're going to be frustrated - even if y is really good. That's when you have to step back and just look at y and feel it for what it is.
I enjoy most of the songs on Zeitgeist, and most of the songs from the era. And those I don't particularly enjoy much, I certainly appreciate and respect. United States, Stellar, Ma Belle, Starz, Tarantula, Doomsday Clock, Neverlost, Death From Above, 7 Shades of Black...all good, enjoyable songs. Come on (let's go!) and Bring the Light, Pomp and Circumstances were certainly different - but they were still good songs!! And if "different" isn't your cup of tea - half of Mellon Collie was "different" in the same vein.
Also, can't forget Gossamer, American Gothic, and all the If All Goes Wrong songs...all part of the Zeitgeist era. People bash it to no end, but it really was a great era.
Now I feel like Teargarden (in theory) has been a good era, but I feel some of the songs officially released have been weaker material, or just lost what was special about them in the studio (Tom Tom). In other words, it's been rather sucky on our end, but a LOT of great stuff seems to have been written/demoed that hasn't seen the light of day. The biggest tragedy of the Teargarden era so far has been the tons of Teargarden material that Billy shelved, which all sounded great from what I heard, and had a lot of potential. I think most fans are generally disappointed with the 10 official releases so far, as a whole...this could have been remedied with just better song selection and studio process...But I'm still hoping...someday...
Um...for the record, I don't hate Zeitgeist because it is "different". I love Billy when his compositions are dark & brooding, blisteringly heavy. Songs like WBFTT, Bodies, XYU, Dross, Cash Car Star, Lucky 13, White Spyder? Love them. The Beginning Is The End Is The Beginning & its counterpart? Awesome.
I have no issue with him going "heavier" & "darker". My favorite artists are those who change drastically with each record. Those who have no fear of what anybody thinks and follow their own agenda. Good on Billy for continuing to change it up with each record, even from beyond the grave the old band resides in. I absolutely respect his desire to move forward and try new methods.
That doesn't mean I like it.
What sets me off about Zeitgeist is the fact that his vocal style changed drastically, and the production job was awful. He layered his own vocals and it sounded bad. Really bad. The mix was way too loud, there was clipping, and his vocal parts shattered my ears. Arguably, the lyrics also lacked the heart they once possessed. Vocally? Well, tell me a song like 7 Shades or That's The Way screams emotion more so than Disarm, Rotten Apples or Zero.
I'm all for a dark, brooding and exceedingly heavy outing of a record, but he pulled it off completely ass backwards. The only way this record could have worked is if it was rawer (ala Machina II), and Billy's vocals were buried in the mix. And that is barring any opportunity to change anything, utilizing only what we have. Because trust me, if I were in the studio with BC & JC, I would have kept a paddle around to swat Billy whenever he sang like he did.
I'm sorry. I just HATE when people say that others dislike that album because it is different. You are speaking of fans of the Pumpkins, here. Not to mention, ones who care THAT much to waste their pathetic time coming to an online message board to quarrel. Trust me when I say, that pretty much none of the people you are speaking to here are afraid of change. It is how the man executes that change.
Interests:Music, family, movies, social progress, hiking, travel
Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:09 PM
LostSoul, on 23 April 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:
Um...for the record, I don't hate Zeitgeist because it is "different". I love Billy when his compositions are dark & brooding, blisteringly heavy. Songs like WBFTT, Bodies, XYU, Dross, Cash Car Star, Lucky 13, White Spyder? Love them. The Beginning Is The End Is The Beginning & its counterpart? Awesome.
I have no issue with him going "heavier" & "darker". My favorite artists are those who change drastically with each record. Those who have no fear of what anybody thinks and follow their own agenda. Good on Billy for continuing to change it up with each record, even from beyond the grave the old band resides in. I absolutely respect his desire to move forward and try new methods.
That doesn't mean I like it.
What sets me off about Zeitgeist is the fact that his vocal style changed drastically, and the production job was awful. He layered his own vocals and it sounded bad. Really bad. The mix was way too loud, there was clipping, and his vocal parts shattered my ears. Arguably, the lyrics also lacked the heart they once possessed. Vocally? Well, tell me a song like 7 Shades or That's The Way screams emotion more so than Disarm, Rotten Apples or Zero.
I'm all for a dark, brooding and exceedingly heavy outing of a record, but he pulled it off completely ass backwards. The only way this record could have worked is if it was rawer (ala Machina II), and Billy's vocals were buried in the mix. And that is barring any opportunity to change anything, utilizing only what we have. Because trust me, if I were in the studio with BC & JC, I would have kept a paddle around to swat Billy whenever he sang like he did.
I'm sorry. I just HATE when people say that others dislike that album because it is different. You are speaking of fans of the Pumpkins, here. Not to mention, ones who care THAT much to waste their pathetic time coming to an online message board to quarrel. Trust me when I say, that pretty much none of the people you are speaking to here are afraid of change. It is how the man executes that change.
Um...for the record, I don't hate Zeitgeist because it is "different". I love Billy when his compositions are dark & brooding, blisteringly heavy. Songs like WBFTT, Bodies, XYU, Dross, Cash Car Star, Lucky 13, White Spyder? Love them. The Beginning Is The End Is The Beginning & its counterpart? Awesome.
I have no issue with him going "heavier" & "darker". My favorite artists are those who change drastically with each record. Those who have no fear of what anybody thinks and follow their own agenda. Good on Billy for continuing to change it up with each record, even from beyond the grave the old band resides in. I absolutely respect his desire to move forward and try new methods.
That doesn't mean I like it.
What sets me off about Zeitgeist is the fact that his vocal style changed drastically, and the production job was awful. He layered his own vocals and it sounded bad. Really bad. The mix was way too loud, there was clipping, and his vocal parts shattered my ears. Arguably, the lyrics also lacked the heart they once possessed. Vocally? Well, tell me a song like 7 Shades or That's The Way screams emotion more so than Disarm, Rotten Apples or Zero.
I'm all for a dark, brooding and exceedingly heavy outing of a record, but he pulled it off completely ass backwards. The only way this record could have worked is if it was rawer (ala Machina II), and Billy's vocals were buried in the mix. And that is barring any opportunity to change anything, utilizing only what we have. Because trust me, if I were in the studio with BC & JC, I would have kept a paddle around to swat Billy whenever he sang like he did.
I'm sorry. I just HATE when people say that others dislike that album because it is different. You are speaking of fans of the Pumpkins, here. Not to mention, ones who care THAT much to waste their pathetic time coming to an online message board to quarrel. Trust me when I say, that pretty much none of the people you are speaking to here are afraid of change. It is how the man executes that change.
I wasn't trying to single you out. But you're certainly entitled to dislike the album.
However - I'm puzzled if you're saying you dislike the album because of technical things like the mix being too loud or clipping...and then saying something totally abstract, like saying Billy's voice has no emotion in it on the album. That's just an entirely subjective thing to say. You're entitled to think it, but I never felt like his voice lacked emotion. Yes, he has changed his singing style a bit, (as in, he sings better, imo) and maybe the fact that he's trying to sing better makes it more difficult to convey the raw emotion that you are used to hearing (just a theory)? Sorry, but some of Billy's singing in the past (especially live) has been awful. But these days, he's doing much better - IMO.
And then back to the technical stuff - I don't understand how you'd dislike the SONGS and the MUSIC itself just because you don't like a technical issue with how it was recorded. I could understand if you didn't like a particular studio version of a song, like how I dislike the studio version of Tom Tom compared to the BCS version. But I just don't comprehend why you'd let clipping or something technical ruin a good piece of music for you. To me, that's like saying you ordered a steak well-done, but you got it medium, and so because you got it medium, you say you hate it...which makes no sense to me, because it's still a delicious steak!
Now, I don't really know anything technical about music (nor do I hear it, or any clipping) so maybe that helps me ignore it - but still.
Oh, I didn't mind his layered vocals either, really. I just saw it as something different.
After listening to Billys latest interview ive got the general impression that Oceania is not being sent out to music mags etc to be reviewed before the official release date, dunno bout you lot but im slightly confused by this if its true but after the shit press Billy had over Zeitgeist (especially over here in the uk, you know who you are...NME!!) if this album is as good (and by god i hope it is) as Billy says it is then surely this is his perfect chance of sticking his fingers up at his harsh critics. Plus the added bonus of more publicity the better the review (ie. album sales, ticket sales etc....)
just wanted to know everyone elses general opinion on this really.
cheers x
Its all up to us fans. We are the only important "critics" at the end of the beginning. lol ;)/> Articles mold away. Listening to the couple of songs of Oceania live, trust me, This album is going to fvcking rock. xo xx
Pablo Honey: C
The Bends: B
OK Computer: A
Kid A: A
Amnesiac: B-
Hail to the Thief: A+
In Rainbows: B
The King of Limbs: B-
Gish: A-
Siamese Dream: A+
Pisces: A+
Mellon Collie: A+
TAFH: A
Adore: A
Machina / machines of god: A
Machina II/ friends and enemies of modern music: A
Judas 0: B
Mary Star of the Sea: C
Zeitgeist: D+
Teargarden EP 1: B-
Teargarden EP 2: B
Lightning Strikes and Owata: F---------
I don't like Zeitgeist as much as the other albums but I am more inclined to rate it a B-,rather a D or an F. But I am using Canadian grading scales, where a B- means 70-72%
Sunflowerdagger, on 24 April 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:
Its all up to us fans. We are the only important "critics" at the end of the beginning. lol ;)/> Articles mold away. Listening to the couple of songs of Oceania live, trust me, This album is going to fvcking rock. xo xx
Haha true enough or at least that's the logic Billy seems to be using ;)/>. The live stuff is definitely promising. I liked My Love is Winter the best out of the newer material they played on the last tour. Although I know that some people prefer earlier versions of it.
Um...for the record, I don't hate Zeitgeist because it is "different". I love Billy when his compositions are dark & brooding, blisteringly heavy. Songs like WBFTT, Bodies, XYU, Dross, Cash Car Star, Lucky 13, White Spyder? Love them. The Beginning Is The End Is The Beginning & its counterpart? Awesome.
I have no issue with him going "heavier" & "darker". My favorite artists are those who change drastically with each record. Those who have no fear of what anybody thinks and follow their own agenda. Good on Billy for continuing to change it up with each record, even from beyond the grave the old band resides in. I absolutely respect his desire to move forward and try new methods.
That doesn't mean I like it.
What sets me off about Zeitgeist is the fact that his vocal style changed drastically, and the production job was awful. He layered his own vocals and it sounded bad. Really bad. The mix was way too loud, there was clipping, and his vocal parts shattered my ears. Arguably, the lyrics also lacked the heart they once possessed. Vocally? Well, tell me a song like 7 Shades or That's The Way screams emotion more so than Disarm, Rotten Apples or Zero.
I'm all for a dark, brooding and exceedingly heavy outing of a record, but he pulled it off completely ass backwards. The only way this record could have worked is if it was rawer (ala Machina II), and Billy's vocals were buried in the mix. And that is barring any opportunity to change anything, utilizing only what we have. Because trust me, if I were in the studio with BC & JC, I would have kept a paddle around to swat Billy whenever he sang like he did.
I'm sorry. I just HATE when people say that others dislike that album because it is different. You are speaking of fans of the Pumpkins, here. Not to mention, ones who care THAT much to waste their pathetic time coming to an online message board to quarrel. Trust me when I say, that pretty much none of the people you are speaking to here are afraid of change. It is how the man executes that change.
Can a mod, please, for the love of all that is good in the world, close this fucking thread already. PLEASE. Internet cats are being slaughtered for every minute it continues to exist. Won't somebody think of them?
Help
dudehitscar, on 22 April 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:
