[pastup]

Listening to Alex Jones is like reading the National Enquirer. There are hints of truth that are all sensationalized and exaggerated/blown out of proportion and then jumping to ridiculous conclusions that may or may not be true. It's entertainment. People love the National Enquirer but we all know it's 98 percent bullshit. I think he's dangerous to people who already have a predisposition to paranoia and mental illnesses like schizophrenia. He also may be suffering from some paranoia as well.

but that's just my opinion. Maybe he's a god damn genius. :scatch:/>
but disguised as a moron.

[ShamanO]

maybe you're a moron disguised as a genius :scatch:/> things we don't know, but only you know! just as I am robot disguised as a female

[werideatdusk]

themadcaplaughs, on 22 March 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

...and lies burned off of souls.

which are then CRUSHED TO DUST WITH METAL!!!

pastup, on 22 March 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

He also may be suffering from some paranoia as well.

=understatement award

[pastup]

ShamanO, on 22 March 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

things we don't know, but only you know!

I don't make these insane claims to know things that no one else knows. That's what people like Alex jones do.

[ShamanO]

pastup, on 22 March 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

I don't make these insane claims to know things that no one else knows. That's what people like Alex jones do.

So what..don't you find it interesting? If there wasn't such conspiracies creativity within art wouldn't be as intriguing

[dudehitscar]

ShamanO, on 22 March 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

So what..don't you find it interesting? If there wasn't such conspiracies creativity within art wouldn't be as intriguing

it's harmful to the political process. Interesting is fine but when people start putting more stock in conspiracies as opposed to fixing REAL problems then it ceases to be interesting and just becomes infuriating.

[pastup]

ShamanO, on 22 March 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

So what..don't you find it interesting? If there wasn't such conspiracies creativity within art wouldn't be as intriguing

No I don't find Jones that interesting. Entertaining maybe but ultimately not helping me wrap my head around the reality of what's going on in our government and politics and the world in general. For one thing, he talks too much which makes for great radio but also makes a person look like an ass. He's not stopping between thoughts long enough to think them through until they are logical or reasonable. It's like, "what if this is true".... even though I have no idea whether it is or not. If you exaggerate a little, then why not a lot? You may as well just make things up if you aren't going to bother presenting real evidence to prove some of this nonsense. His evidence comes from what? web surfing?

I mean, something doesn't have to be true to be interesting... like science fiction or mythology but I don't like the way it's presented as being true without a doubt and we're all too blind to see it but yet somehow everyone knows. I just watched Jones' latest upload on his youtube channel and it sounds like incoherent nonsense that I would never bring up in a serious discussion about politics and the state of our country because I would look like and sound like a fool.

it's like wild speculation... what if
so I guess it can be fun but not very productive at actually changing anything. What's his solution? That we all go out and buy guns because Martial law is coming? That's definitely fear mongering and spreading fear is not a positive thing if you are serious about trying to solve some of the problems we face in this country and in the world.

[_________]

There's no point trying to dispel conspiracy theories. No matter what you say, no matter how rationally you explain things, people who gravitate toward such theories will find a reason to believe them. I question everything. I find it interesting questioning political and economic structures and finding out why and how they came to be. There are no easy answers to them, but the truth behind them are always much more interesting than what conspiracy theorists come up with.

[BlueSkiesBringTears]

The trailer:

[mayday27]

He's right about that! the best way go problem solve it to consider many different lines of thought and come up with something that works, truly works and is not just a "which cup is the ball under now" which gets you no where and wastes resources

[pastup]

BlueSkiesBringTears, on 22 March 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

The trailer:

I have no problem with any of the points Billy made in this preview. We should be allowed to question and talk about whatever we want but Alex Jones goes around to supposedly legitimate media outlets (fox news) and talks about things like martial law because a certain bill was signed or a certain riot exercise was preformed to prepare for some hypothetical scenario in which we have homegrown terrorism within our own Country. He's talking about complicated boring things that he doesn't have a full understanding of and simplifying them to his own understanding and coming up with conspiracy doomsday type conclusions. Why does no one take him seriously? His voice is not being suppressed. He's allowed to say whatever he wants and people still aren't listening because it's obvious that he doesn't really know what he's talking about. If Billy wants to question climate change and get to the truth then he should be talking to people who understand climate science and not getting his info from youtube videos about evil Monsanto and 2012 and chemtrails.

[EasyCake]

The problem is the same principle applies to these cult generators known as conspiracy theories. The moment you bring in a real scientist or expert to explain these things they fall apart completely.

[Fernando]

That's because we have a lot of people and scientists into lobbying Congress and the public opinion on global warming...

[Arachnea]

Fernando, on 23 March 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

That's because we have a lot of people and scientists into lobbying Congress and the public opinion on global warming...

This is happening on both sides, by those who agree and disagree with climate change (global warming is a misnomer created by the media). Science is not free of bias and is a tool that can be used for and against any issue. The general consensus by leading scientists (not affiliated with corporations or lobbyists) is that it exists. The contention between scientists is mainly around how serious (and how quickly) it will become, who is responsible, and how to best handle the issues that are arising.

[Fernando]

Arachnea, on 23 March 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

This is happening on both sides, by those who agree and disagree with climate change (global warming is a misnomer created by the media). Science is not free of bias and is a tool that can be used for and against any issue. The general consensus by leading scientists (not affiliated with corporations or lobbyists) is that it exists. The contention between scientists is mainly around how serious (and how quickly) it will become, who is responsible, and how to best handle the issues that are arising.

I think so, but I need to desagree about the "global warming is a misnomer crested by the media", because it's not created by the media.

http://www.sciencema.../5702/1686.full

Plus, the money is in energy lobby and industry, not in the green-thinkers, so... the lobby is really stronger in one side. Anyway, those things are creating a skeptical culture, you don't know what or who to believe...

[Arachnea]

Fernando, on 23 March 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

I think so, but I need to desagree about the "global warming is a misnomer crested by the media", because it's not created by the media.

http://www.sciencema.../5702/1686.full

Plus, the money is in energy lobby and industry, not in the green-thinkers, so... the lobby is really stronger in one side. Anyway, those things are creating a skeptical culture, you don't know what or who to believe...

How does that article help prove your point? Did you understand the article?

A misnomer means that a misleading name is applied, in this situation, to an entire field of study. The media is known for choosing terminology to get peoples attention and dumb down complex scientific findings for the general public to understand.

Global warming is only a part of a whole. Climate change deals with a lot of more than just rising temperatures.

[ShamanO]

what was earth like before the ice age? was it not surviving before the ice age began? so global warming is just another change happening on earth.

[Arachnea]

ShamanO, on 23 March 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

what was earth like before the ice age? was it not surviving before the ice age began? so global warming is just another change happening on earth.

The short and simple answer: human influence.

[ShamanO]

Arachnea, on 23 March 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

The short and simple answer: human influence.

ahh yes, but that's a fair blame considering we don't have anything else to blame since things can't just happen naturally. Do we blame human influence for the ice age too?

(typo fixed as it may bother some people on the board if I would have left it)

This post has been edited by ShamanO: 23 March 2012 - 09:24 AM

[Deleted User Account]

In the end, say climate change is a fraud (it's not, everyone listen to Arachnea). To what end? What does it accomplish? What's the point?

[Arachnea]

ShamanO, on 23 March 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

ahh yes, but that's a fair blame considering we don't have anything else to blame since things can't just happen naturally. Do we blame human influence for the ice age too?

(typo fixed as it may bother some people on the board if I would have left it)

I do not follow your logic. Why even bring up the ice age in comparison to current climate change patterns and issues? Are you really comparing the world we live in now (industrial revolution and all) to an ice age that last occurred about 15,000 years ago when the earth was populated by a few hundred people?

[ShamanO]

we all know the climate is changing. perhaps instead of people fearing it. embrace the changes and learn to adapt to it.
I have my doubts that if everyone on this planet did their part in recycling and conserving that it would stop the world from warming up and melting away ice caps. maybe earth will just become one big water planet eventually.

Arachnea, on 23 March 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

I do not follow your logic. Why even bring up the ice age in comparison to current climate change patterns and issues? Are you really comparing the world we live in now (industrial revolution and all) to an ice age that last occurred about 15,000 years ago when the earth was populated by a few hundred people?

well again you didn't live during those times and neither did the scientist so what do we know truly know about how this earth is supposed to be? it's like people want it the way they know it and by god something changes and people freak out about it.

also my by god comment was more of an BY GOLLY GEE just in case you think I'm bringing god into the topic, which i wasn't it was just a saying.

[Fernando]

Arachnea, on 23 March 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

How does that article help prove your point? Did you understand the article?

A misnomer means that a misleading name is applied, in this situation, to an entire field of study. The media is known for choosing terminology to get peoples attention and dumb down complex scientific findings for the general public to understand.

Global warming is only a part of a whole. Climate change deals with a lot of more than just rising temperatures.

I mean, a lot of people was talking about it as "global warming", not only the media.

[Arachnea]

ArticulateEric, on 23 March 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

In the end, say climate change is a fraud (it's not, everyone listen to Arachnea). To what end? What does it accomplish? What's the point?

I think some people feel threatened. They do not want to be responsible for the problems and it is easier to turn a blind eye to it or pretend that it does not exist. Some may even feel like others are trying to dictate how they should live or think. I believe it does come down to people not wanting to have to change or adapt their habits (and resentment for being made to feel guilty). The hostility towards climate change and "green" living is much more apparent in North America than anywhere else I have been to.

ShamanO, on 23 March 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

we all know the climate is changing. perhaps instead of people fearing it. embrace the changes and learn to adapt to it.
I have my doubts that if everyone on this planet did their part in recycling and conserving that it would stop the world from warming up and melting away ice caps. maybe earth will just become one big water planet eventually.


well again you didn't live during those times and neither did the scientist so what do we know truly know about how this earth is supposed to be? it's like people want it the way they know it and by god something changes and people freak out about it.

also my by god comment was more of an BY GOLLY GEE just in case you think I'm bringing god into the topic, which i wasn't it was just a saying.

They did not have to be there to make their deductions of what happened. It may not be 100% accurate but their findings have been able to be replicated by others in the scientific community. There is a difference between the geological changes that occurred during the ice age and the human induced changes in the climate of the present. Furthermore, there are different scales to look at when examining climate change. In high risk areas, where ecological changes are a matter of life and death, it is a very real and immediate problem. Climate change is not just about extreme temperatures data but how it impacts different people, plants, and animals and their ability to survive (the social science aspect of the issue). Catastrophic changes in temperatures, like the ice age, has lead to mass extinctions. Regions in Africa, India, South America, and many more have had to deal with environmental injustices caused by climate change patterns (caused by pollutants, the clearing of their natural resources, fresh water scarcity). It is a very complex field that cannot be looked at as just a numbers game.

[ShamanO]

extinction happens. We by no means live in a perfect world where everything will be as is. How do we not know there is not a reason for the extinction of some animals/bugs (not from humans going out and hunting them, but from climate change,earth change) does it not create an evolution of other bugs/animals to exist, which then scientist can study new forms of living creatures?

[Arachnea]

Fernando, on 23 March 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

I mean, a lot of people was talking about it as "global warming", not only the media.

Yes, others did use the term yet those using the term are generally not scientists. The majority of scientific documents do detail rising global temperatures yet they still refer to it as climate change. The use and perpetuation of the term "global warming" was used as a tactic by the media to get peoples attention, and others soon followed to use it (like politicians and corporations).

[glassjon]

At the end of the day,we are only prolonging evolution.

[pastup]

People misunderstand the problem when they think of it as "warming" because the changes in the weather are not always heat. I mean overall the planet is getting warmer at a faster rate than ever before and it coincidentally started around the same time as the industrial revolution. But an overall rising global temperature doesn't mean we won't have record snowfalls like we had in asia this winter. Heat plays a part in creating snow storms.
Take a look at the levels of carbon dioxide going back 800,000 years. Notice the sever spike. Ice ages happen slowly and gradually over time. The rate at which the planet is warming and the climate is changing is unprecedented.

[dudehitscar]

pastup, on 23 March 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

People misunderstand the problem when they think of it as "warming" because the changes in the weather are not always heat. I mean overall the planet is getting warmer at a faster rate than ever before and it coincidentally started around the same time as the industrial revolution. But an overall rising global temperature doesn't mean we won't have record snowfalls like we had in asia this winter. Heat plays a part in creating snow storms.
Take a look at the levels of carbon dioxide going back 800,000 years. Notice the sever spike. Ice ages happen slowly and gradually over time. The rate at which the planet is warming and the climate is changing is unprecedented.

correlation doesn't prove causation..


I believe human activity is causing the earth to get warmer than it would otherwise but I'm just saying that it's not as cut and dry as you are making it out to be.

This post has been edited by dudehitscar: 23 March 2012 - 10:43 AM

[Chad Channing]

All of my respect for billy has been lost right now

[Martine Castonguay]

BlueSkiesBringTears, on 22 March 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

The trailer:

What is really new in that, it is he is ready to discuss about his ideas and in that he must have all our respect. He never had this openess before.

[ShamanO]

Chad Channing, on 23 March 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

All of my respect for billy has been lost right now

this has happened before from you.

[pastup]

dudehitscar, on 23 March 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

correlation doesn't prove causation..


I believe human activity is causing the earth to get warmer than it would otherwise but I'm just saying that it's not as cut and dry as you are making it out to be.

No you're right. It's not simple and it's not fully understood. This isn't the thread to debate the global warming cause but everyone can now at least agree that it's happening. In the past people who denied climate change denied that it was happening at all and weren't as interested in the debate of the cause of the warming. Now you have people who say that CO2 emissions aren't the cause or at least aren't the primary cause but if that's true then what can we do about it? Nothing? It seems like people who are denying that global warming is man made have no plan to combat it. As if we have no control over it so we may as well not even try and stop it.

[dudehitscar]

pastup, on 23 March 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

No you're right. It's not simple and it's not fully understood. This isn't the thread to debate the global warming cause but everyone can now at least agree that it's happening. In the past people who denied climate change denied that it was happening at all and weren't as interested in the debate of the cause of the warming. Now you have people who say that CO2 emissions aren't the cause or at least aren't the primary cause but if that's true then what can we do about it? Nothing? It seems like people who are denying that global warming is man made have no plan to combat it. As if we have no control over it so we may as well not even try and stop it.

I'm with you.. When rich peoples oceanfront property starts getting noticeably swallowed by the sea then I think we might have th political will to do something...

That being said I don't understand the doomsday scenarios that get paraded around either. So I'm kind of a climate change moderate..

This post has been edited by dudehitscar: 23 March 2012 - 12:01 PM

[easternmind]

good for Billy, speaking his mind about politics and the state of the world.

[standing]

dudehitscar, on 23 March 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

When rich peoples oceanfront property starts getting noticeably swallowed by the sea then I think we might have th political will to do something...

true dat

[Fuzzy]

I find it hilarious how everyone discredits chemtrails and uses offensive insults because of it without even researching it themselves... It shows the true ignorance of everyone...

The fact is chemtrails are 100% real... But its not some global plan to kill and poison everyone... Its a method used by the American government for geo engineering.... Essentially to combat climate change...

What they're doing is working on a program on a consistent basis where they use a method of cloud seeding in the sky using a substance such as barium to create a synthetic like cloud over the sun for use as a pretty much life like sunscreen... The idea is that it'll reflect the sun back at itself and thus lower temperatures and reduce the harm of global warming... They've been doing this for years...

Funny enough its only now beginning to get mainstream attention as an "option" to stop global warming... Pretty much thats how the big wig government works... They'll do whatever they want and then slowly ease the public into the idea when they've been doing it all along.

Just search "cloud seeding" or "geo engineering+ global warming" on youtube.

And really all you have to do is study or take note of the skies on a daily basis... Chemtrails are always rampant in the evenings and they always just spread out to create a synthetic looking fog that covers the sun... If it were a "contrail" it wouldn't completely make a haze that shields everyone from the rest of the days sunlight... Contrails dissipate with in minutes usually and don't linger and stretch out.

Its seriously so easy to see this happening during the summer... I thought this shit was nuts too until I looked into it... If it sounds crazy just study the skies during a consistent sample size during sunny days.

[hello_juliana]

Arachnea, on 23 March 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

I do not follow your logic. Why even bring up the ice age in comparison to current climate change patterns and issues? Are you really comparing the world we live in now (industrial revolution and all) to an ice age that last occurred about 15,000 years ago when the earth was populated by a few hundred people?

What she is trying to say is that there have been periods of global warming and cooling in the history of the earth that cant be blamed on us. The issue I have with global warming is that People treat it like a religion, there is no questioning it. Science is all about questioning and proving

pastup, on 23 March 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

No you're right. It's not simple and it's not fully understood. This isn't the thread to debate the global warming cause but everyone can now at least agree that it's happening. In the past people who denied climate change denied that it was happening at all and weren't as interested in the debate of the cause of the warming. Now you have people who say that CO2 emissions aren't the cause or at least aren't the primary cause but if that's true then what can we do about it? Nothing? It seems like people who are denying that global warming is man made have no plan to combat it. As if we have no control over it so we may as well not even try and stop it.

Climate.change does exist, but the question is what is causing it. The issue I have with a lot of people is that they are not willing to look at the the motives of both parties.

dudehitscar, on 23 March 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

correlation doesn't prove causation..


I believe human activity is causing the earth to get warmer than it would otherwise but I'm just saying that it's not as cut and dry as you are making it out to be.

Exactly!

[dudehitscar]

Fuzzy, on 23 March 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

I find it hilarious how everyone discredits chemtrails and uses offensive insults because of it without even researching it themselves... It shows the true ignorance of everyone...

The fact is chemtrails are 100% real... But its not some global plan to kill and poison everyone... Its a method used by the American government for geo engineering.... Essentially to combat climate change...

What they're doing is working on a program on a consistent basis where they use a method of cloud seeding in the sky using a substance such as barium to create a synthetic like cloud over the sun for use as a pretty much life like sunscreen... The idea is that it'll reflect the sun back at itself and thus lower temperatures and reduce the harm of global warming... They've been doing this for years...

Funny enough its only now beginning to get mainstream attention as an "option" to stop global warming... Pretty much thats how the big wig government works... They'll do whatever they want and then slowly ease the public into the idea when they've been doing it all along.

Just search "cloud seeding" or "geo engineering+ global warming" on youtube.

And really all you have to do is study or take note of the skies on a daily basis... Chemtrails are always rampant in the evenings and they always just spread out to create a synthetic looking fog that covers the sun... If it were a "contrail" it wouldn't completely make a haze that shields everyone from the rest of the days sunlight... Contrails dissipate with in minutes usually and don't linger and stretch out.

Its seriously so easy to see this happening during the summer... I thought this shit was nuts too until I looked into it... If it sounds crazy just study the skies during a consistent sample size during sunny days.

But I thought global warming was a marxist plot to tax us more? Anyway no one is doubting the use of cloud seeding techniques.

[hello_juliana]

dudehitscar, on 24 March 2012 - 05:36 AM, said:

But I thought global warming was a marxist plot to tax us more? Anyway no one is doubting the use of cloud seeding techniques.

I don't think it is a plot but I believe companies accept global warming because it means higher prices can be charged. Like paying more for electricity or water.

[mayday27]

Creating renewable energy and being conscious of maintaining a clean environment is important and worth it, however when you dump 500 million into a solar company and it goes bankrupt in one year this is a big problem. If this is a legitamate bankruptcy then that means they needed to invest in research and development of the new energy and not a company to produce the end result right away. A lot of the green stuff gets a bad wrap because of the criminals who see an opportunity to steal money like it sounds like with this company.

[Arachnea]

mayday27, on 24 March 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

Creating renewable energy and being conscious of maintaining a clean environment is important and worth it, however when you dump 500 million into a solar company and it goes bankrupt in one year this is a big problem. If this is a legitamate bankruptcy then that means they needed to invest in research and development of the new energy and not a company to produce the end result right away. A lot of the green stuff gets a bad wrap because of the criminals who see an opportunity to steal money like it sounds like with this company.

Absolutely. It is unfortunate yet it happens within most industries. Corporations attempt to take advantage of people's growing consciousness of environmental issues and they often come up with what is called "green washing" products. Products or companies that are marketed "green" but are really not. Research into the companies, products, practices and policies is a good way to combat them. Furthermore, financial and energy savings in green solutions is normally not seen in the first year (or even in the first couple of years) yet the long term benefits and savings are well worth it, but when people are used to getting things up front it can be a difficult mindset to alter.

[RottingApples]

Fuzzy, on 23 March 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

I find it hilarious how everyone discredits chemtrails and uses offensive insults because of it without even researching it themselves... It shows the true ignorance of everyone...

The fact is chemtrails are 100% real... But its not some global plan to kill and poison everyone... Its a method used by the American government for geo engineering.... Essentially to combat climate change...

What they're doing is working on a program on a consistent basis where they use a method of cloud seeding in the sky using a substance such as barium to create a synthetic like cloud over the sun for use as a pretty much life like sunscreen... The idea is that it'll reflect the sun back at itself and thus lower temperatures and reduce the harm of global warming... They've been doing this for years...

Funny enough its only now beginning to get mainstream attention as an "option" to stop global warming... Pretty much thats how the big wig government works... They'll do whatever they want and then slowly ease the public into the idea when they've been doing it all along.

Just search "cloud seeding" or "geo engineering+ global warming" on youtube.

And really all you have to do is study or take note of the skies on a daily basis... Chemtrails are always rampant in the evenings and they always just spread out to create a synthetic looking fog that covers the sun... If it were a "contrail" it wouldn't completely make a haze that shields everyone from the rest of the days sunlight... Contrails dissipate with in minutes usually and don't linger and stretch out.

Its seriously so easy to see this happening during the summer... I thought this shit was nuts too until I looked into it... If it sounds crazy just study the skies during a consistent sample size during sunny days.

I always understood it to simply be water vapor, and the only reason you see more in the evening happens based on the angle the sunlight reflects. Makes a lot more sense to me than some chemical poisoning conspiracy, or some "SUPER Sunscreen". Especially given how it's not some "new" thing. There were just as many "chemtrails" in the sky 20 years ago. Why was it not a big deal then?

[ShamanO]

hmm but isn't going up into the sky in an airplanes using jet fuel a small part of the problem to this climate change that is claimed to be caused by human influence?