[davidp2007]

ShamanO, on 17 April 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

for some reason I feel the need to type TURTLES right now.

the on thing that kind of pissed me off was hearing how someone can sell footage for an extreme amount of money because no one else has it. I don't think Billy should have to be forking out a shit ton of money to someone who owns footage of a show.
talk about extortion!

my head is going :wacko:/> from the figures put out there.

I completely understand he would at least need to break even with getting these archive items out.

I do hope the group is getting something underway here soon enough and this isn't going to be some sort of talk for next x amount of months with nothing to show.

Yeah that was really ridiculous that people could do that to the band. Virgin/EMI did a total misfire with their original chance to put out the Metro DVD as well.

I hope so too. It sounds like Billy would need a more of a commitment from fans before he even releases full audio for things, even digitally. But hopefully we can figure something out that will be satisfying to everyone. I for one would not need packaging for most of the archive stuff, but it could be special for some of things and I know that many people do want the whole packaged deal as well.

[Drevpile]

ShamanO, on 17 April 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

for some reason I feel the need to type TURTLES right now.

I feel like say HUZZAR!

[JSapp]

ZivotSon, on 17 April 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

I can't sum up an hour interview, but here are some tidbits:

When discussing the Mellon Collie re-issue, he seemed a little fixated on "Tales of a Scorched Earth", using it as an example many times. Sounded like they were looking into finding or creating a clean mix. Also sounded like the bonus disc will have another version of XYU.

He hasn't been songwriting since he finished Oceania. He has been working on his book.

EMI could have released the final show DVD (they had the rights for 2 years or so) but decided not to. EMI was contractually obligated to pay them for not releasing it. Used it as an example of how foolish EMI was back then and how they had decided to go in another direction.

Soothe has been remixed for the PI reissue. Everything else only remastered.

They are working with someone who worked on Roger Waters' The Wall tour for the Oceania Tour. Apparently he's come up with some really cool concepts. Sounded like the scope of the tour would be dependent on success of the album. They are going to start the show by playing the full album in sequence. They want the album out a while before they tour.

Made it through an hour interview without trashing any former members.

Thanks. I was just looking for the highlights and will listen later. I appriciate this a ton! +1!

[werideatdusk]

Thanks! Cant wait to get my dirty hands on that MCIS reissue. Was anything said about the release dates for reissues?

[ShamanO]

maybe Billy should figure out what he thinks would be a good thing to be packaged? I mean after all he is the one who has access to all of it. And maybe propose that to the lucky13 to see if it would be a wise thing to package off to fans and figure out what type of package. Obviously not everything is going to be packaged. I'm ok with having downloads of things too. (i'm not an mp3 fan though, but if that is all that would be available for whatever reason, then fine, I'll pay for it)
I would like to have other options besides just mp3 downloads.

[WayneArnold]

I think the key is what he hinted at- having each release instantly become a collector's item. Something people really want, and will pay properly for, and then the rest will be digital and ultimately get pirated. How do you make something a collector's item? Vinyl. In different colors. First 50 people that order get Red, then there's 300 printed on White, 500 on Blue. Or whatever. That way there's a big chunk of money up front.


I still think having a list of potential releases is a big deal. Taking guesses at potential releases "everyone knows about" doesn't do a lot of good. Because, as we've seen, people clamor for the Metro DVD (likely to be part of an EMI release) or Double Door (potentially not even available). Let's see a list.

[Drevpile]

Lucky 13; Make a comprehensive guide of stuff - STAT! Start getting this shit together guys.

This post has been edited by Drevpile: 17 April 2012 - 12:01 PM

[ShamanO]

Drevpile, on 17 April 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

I feel like say HUZZAR!

you know if you say that backwards you get RAZZUH! sounds like a new form of razzle

[Drevpile]

zzzz - Oceania stuff

[davidp2007]

werideatdusk, on 17 April 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

Thanks! Cant wait to get my dirty hands on that MCIS reissue. Was anything said about the release dates for reissues?

He didn't say anything about Pisces Iscariot but it sounded like they are aiming at releasing Mellon Collie and TAFH reissues by the end of the year. Adore would not be available until record store day next year, and by the end of that year they would have the Machina re-issue out. He said that EMI might be interested in a Best Of release as well, but that's more them and not him, that the fans would have likely already gotten what they needed out of the reissues.

He said that in 2014, he would get back the rights to the Zwan material, and that there is about 65 unreleased Zwan songs/recordings out there. There also could be material released such as FutureEmbrace stuff or a new version of Zeitgeist.

[WayneArnold]

Drevpile, on 17 April 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

Lucky 13; Make a comprehensive guide of stuff - STAT! Start getting this shit together guys.

Yep. Do we know who else is a member of this shindig yet? Falling Star? Gary? Nice Peter?

[Razorstar]

Here's a thougt- a couple of months ago Louis CK make a million dollars selling a show he owned all the rights to as a download. SURELY there's potential for this. SURELY.

[davidp2007]

He also mentioned that they pretty much filmed or had filmed almost every concert since the start of the Mellon Collie tour. He didn't mention it, but obviously they didn't do video of the United Center show. It sounds like there are soundboards for a lot of the shows through those years too.

EDIT: As it was pointed out, he actually said they pretty much soundboarded, not filmed most of the shows from Mellon Collie on. My mistake.

[whywontyoulisten]

I want a Pastichio Medley-style compilation of Billy's burps.

[WayneArnold]

davidp2007, on 17 April 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

He also mentioned that they pretty much filmed or had filmed almost every concert since the start of the Mellon Collie tour. He didn't mention it, but obviously they didn't do video of the United Center show. It sounds like there are soundboards for a lot of the shows through those years too.

You pretty much didn't listen. They have all those shows recorded- not filmed.

[ShamanO]

WayneArnold, on 17 April 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

You pretty much didn't listen. They have all those shows recorded- not filmed.

yeah he said the had they soundboard of everything from 1995 and on when the caught on and began to figure out to record everything.

This post has been edited by ShamanO: 17 April 2012 - 12:12 PM

[davidp2007]

WayneArnold, on 17 April 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

You pretty much didn't listen. They have all those shows recorded- not filmed.

I did listen but I was distracted with other things. My mistake.

[ShamanO]

Drevpile, on 17 April 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

zzzz - Oceania stuff

judging an album before you hear it. didn't your mom or grandmother teach you never judge a book by it's cover? of course in this case don't judge an album based on hearsay in the media.

[CaptainFalcon]

davidp2007, on 17 April 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

He didn't say anything about Pisces Iscariot but it sounded like they are aiming at releasing Mellon Collie and TAFH reissues by the end of the year. Adore would not be available until record store day next year, and by the end of that year they would have the Machina re-issue out. He said that EMI might be interested in a Best Of release as well, but that's more them and not him, that the fans would have likely already gotten what they needed out of the reissues.

He said that in 2014, he would get back the rights to the Zwan material, and that there is about 65 unreleased Zwan songs/recordings out there. There also could be material released such as FutureEmbrace stuff or a new version of Zeitgeist.

I can't say enough how badly I want the Zwan material.

[Drevpile]

ShamanO, on 17 April 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

judging an album before you hear it.

I am just not interested in it in the slightest, I'm not saying it's bad. Billy just said he's happy with fans who are only invested in the old SP - so that's fine with me.

WayneArnold, on 17 April 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

Yep. Do we know who else is a member of this shindig yet? Falling Star? Gary? Nice Peter?

I suspect some probably have the combined brain power of our chums. We are waiting on the Big reveal (monte obviously)

I think Nice Peter should definitely be consulted on this project, as an expert fan. I'll have to try and reach him on twitter or something...

This post has been edited by Drevpile: 17 April 2012 - 12:22 PM

[ShamanO]

well hopefully you listen to it Drev and it's decent enough for you to give the album a 2nd listen :lick:/>

since everyone wants to make guesses on who is lucky13 maybe a guessing thread needs to be made for fun with your list of who is involved.

plz give me a good laugh later with it

[ChrisHill]

Drevpile, on 17 April 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

Lucky 13; Make a comprehensive guide of stuff - STAT! Start getting this shit together guys.

Isn't this what Frank Quinto was working on? I'm not sure how far he got, but I know he added a bunch of setlists to the SPFC. I doubt all (or maybe even any) of the Lucky 13 are in Chicago, so I'm guessing they may not have access to the material itself (but I'm guessing, haven't had a chance to listen to the interview yet).

Chris Hill

[Drevpile]

I am a little confused as to what the "first pick from what you know exists' and make the project work, before Billy is willing to release a complete and compressive guide for the achieves. For example, I'm assuming some people will not have been aware that every single show from MCIS onwards has soundboards, so are they being asked to pick from these now?

[ShamanO]

so where does this all begin? from the very beginning or something that is just random to kickstart it off?

ideally a list of lets say 10 things could be compiled and then agreed upon as to what should be put out 1st.
Why is this so damn difficult to do?

make a poll Drev.

[Drevpile]

ShamanO, on 17 April 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

well hopefully you listen to it Drev

Highly unlikely. If I feel like aggregating exactly how many different licks I can recognise from previous JC parts or see how close they have attempted to come to try and sound like 'classic pumpkins'. I do hope that it's a kick-ass record / that you guys all enjoy - but honestly, deep down, I just couldn't care-less about them.

ShamanO, on 17 April 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

so where does this all begin? from the very beginning or something that is just random to kickstart it off?

ideally a list of lets say 10 things could be compiled and then agreed upon as to what should be put out 1st.
Why is this so damn difficult to do?

make a poll Drev.

:)/> Ha, I'm trusting that they Lucky 13 Team actually have a really comprehensive and sensible plan about how to approach this, they're just waiting for the right time to start with the full blown integrated initiative. I mean, I know for damn sure, if I was given even a tiny % of this responsibility by Corgan - I would have my shit ready to go as soon as they announced the fact that there was a team - ESPECIALLY considering Corgan's comments in the interview - He seems to want to get something out there ASAP... If this dialogue fails, it's on their heads now.

[TalkingHead]

ChrisHill, on 17 April 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

Isn't this what Frank Quinto was working on? I'm not sure how far he got, but I know he added a bunch of setlists to the SPFC. I doubt all (or maybe even any) of the Lucky 13 are in Chicago, so I'm guessing they may not have access to the material itself (but I'm guessing, haven't had a chance to listen to the interview yet).

Chris Hill

I've asked at least twice now if they're using data Frank already compiled. No straight answer. Whatever. It's been said they're not starting over from nothing and I guess that's supposed to be a good enough answer. Like saying they'll release the list of members in an announcement then never doing so.

But I understand they're so busy responding to other posts that they can't take the time to write out all those names...

[davidp2007]

They seemed to be suggesting that Frank's info would be used in some capacity. He mentioned Frank going through archives himself too. I'm not sure if he is involved this time around on this end, but it sounds like he is still on staff.

One idea, maybe it's not viable due to the production costs involved (based on Billy's interview), but maybe a small sampler of stuff from the archives could be released, stuff that wouldn't necessarily have commercial value could be given away for free as a show of good faith? You know as opposed to one song like they did before. Like a few songs only.

[MonteLDS]

ShamanO, on 17 April 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

so where does this all begin? from the very beginning or something that is just random to kickstart it off?

ideally a list of lets say 10 things could be compiled and then agreed upon as to what should be put out 1st.
Why is this so damn difficult to do?

make a poll Drev.

Let the Lucky 13 Team take the lead.

[Dusty]

I think people would be a little less antsy if we had an idea where the next step would be. Great interview by the way.

[ChrisHill]

Please, for the love of god, Kickstarter the Rubano tapes. Catalog the dates, setlists, etc. of what's included, put up some sound clips of the "best" and "worst" in terms of sound quality, and start at what you need to break even and price from there (i.e. if the project needs $20,000 to break even, give it a try first at $200 and see if we can convince 100 people to buy in. If not, rinse and repeat at $100 and see if we can get 200 people). This way Billy isn't doing all the work up front like he described, and in essence the market is setting the price. The only up front work is the cataloging (which should already be done) and the creation and hosting of the sound clips.

If you're never able to get $20,000 out of it, no matter what price you set it at, then try the same process again with something else from a different era, or maybe something that requires a smaller amount of money to break even (a small vinyl pressing instead of a box set, for example, may only need $10,000 to break even, I don't know). But the only way you're going to find out what works and what doesn't is actually putting stuff on Kickstarter, where it's not just empty promises and polling, and see what sticks.

Chris Hill

[Dawn2Dusk]

I am the perfect man for any of these positions. Why? Cos I need the $$$

[mayday27]

suggestion:

1. narrow the material to a base line of 'gray area worthy material' per category. somewhat operationally define what you are looking for. "gray area worthy": stuff pops as interesting or is historically interesting, enough quality to release, no burps
e.g: 1,000 hours total ->10% SD -> 3% "gray area worthy". Sub Cat SD: live shows, studio episodes, misc, etc.

Now you have a baseline of stuff you are willing to release for the cat: SD

2. poll the engaged consumers. e.g We have all live concerts for SD. How would you want these offered? A. Everything for price x, B. purchase per show for price x, C. I want both options available to me (and you could add more options) (quantitative info). Also ask people to remark on if there was not a choice they like, what would they like in terms of price etc? (qualitative info)
Then from feedback you can make a more informed decision.

I guess the big thing right now is getting the baseline of stuff they would like to offer people. Then figure out what people would want out of the baseline. Then release it.

Maybe make drawings or decision trees. Visuals sometimes help.

[paranoidclone]

Hi guys, I'm kinda new to these parts of town but decided to finally make an account now that we "engaged consumers" have an important roll in getting this material out. I think there are many others like myself who don't generally speak up but have a profound interest in this band and I think it's about time more people become involved now that Billy is willing to let his fans decide on what to do with his own music. I don't think we should underestimate the amount of fans this band still has and the tens of thousands that I hope the high-tide will sweep in after Oceania is released so my only fear is that there are a few who could potentially mess this up for everyone, including some of these lucky members who may so unintentionally. So far I think they've been doing an excellent job responding to others' ideas and so I feel pretty optimistic about what we can achieve with everyone's support. There is so much material already out there on archive.org and youtube (full concerts, unreleased material, documentaries, etc) that I still have a lot of catching up to do, but my only advice is from what I've seen that didn't work, specifically SPRC as well as continued announcements of announcements, is that I'd like to see this project hit the ground running, maybe releasing some of the first couple shows ever in pumpkins history, something to get everyone excited about. and I think the only real way of getting a consensus on anything is to set up some polls for all of us to vote on that we would like to be released, maybe similar to the cover contest on thepumpkins.net but polling through a message board, twitter, or fb doesn't seem like it would be that effective to me. We only need a couple hundred people here to get the snowball rolling and I definitely think with the best and most diverse fans of any band that we could finally find some common ground and make this happen. Anyway, It's nice to meet you all and I look forward to all your great ideas!

mayday27, on 17 April 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Maybe make drawings or decision trees. Visuals sometimes help.

Maybe similar to an NCAA bracket? lol

[mayday27]

sure. yep. that is one way to visually organize information

[RottingApples]

The only thing I'd be concerned with in regards to making the Rubano Tapes the first item is that I don't think it'd raise as much interest as other items. Don't get me wrong, I would really like to see a Rubano collection come out through SPRC, but I don't think it's notable enough to be the first release. I think a solid 1-2 disc collection of Siamese Dream demos wouldn't be a bad way to start. It's coming out of a popular era of the band and one that's already been covered by the reissues. Starting at the very beginning, while a logical starting point, really wouldn't be the best for getting a lot of excitement/ support drummed up. There may be a number of us who care about Pre-Gish, but there are plenty out there who don't, and while Pre-Gish materials may be a worthwhile venture down the line, it really doesn't stand up as a way of getting people outside of this board interested and invested.

ChrisHill, on 17 April 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

Please, for the love of god, Kickstarter the Rubano tapes. Catalog the dates, setlists, etc. of what's included, put up some sound clips of the "best" and "worst" in terms of sound quality, and start at what you need to break even and price from there (i.e. if the project needs $20,000 to break even, give it a try first at $200 and see if we can convince 100 people to buy in. If not, rinse and repeat at $100 and see if we can get 200 people). This way Billy isn't doing all the work up front like he described, and in essence the market is setting the price. The only up front work is the cataloging (which should already be done) and the creation and hosting of the sound clips.

If you're never able to get $20,000 out of it, no matter what price you set it at, then try the same process again with something else from a different era, or maybe something that requires a smaller amount of money to break even (a small vinyl pressing instead of a box set, for example, may only need $10,000 to break even, I don't know). But the only way you're going to find out what works and what doesn't is actually putting stuff on Kickstarter, where it's not just empty promises and polling, and see what sticks.

Chris Hill

Othewise, I do very much agree with your method of how it should be handled via Kickstarter.

[ChrisHill]

RottingApples, on 17 April 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

The only thing I'd be concerned with in regards to making the Rubano Tapes the first item is that I don't think it'd raise as much interest as other items. Don't get me wrong, I would really like to see a Rubano collection come out through SPRC, but I don't think it's notable enough to be the first release. I think a solid 1-2 disc collection of Siamese Dream demos wouldn't be a bad way to start. It's coming out of a popular era of the band and one that's already been covered by the reissues. Starting at the very beginning, while a logical starting point, really wouldn't be the best for getting a lot of excitement/ support drummed up. There may be a number of us who care about Pre-Gish, but there are plenty out there who don't, and while Pre-Gish materials may be a worthwhile venture down the line, it really doesn't stand up as a way of getting people outside of this board interested and invested.

The order doesn't have to matter. If there's not enough interest in it, they'll know that quickly and can shift gears. If the Kickstarter is set up to need $20,000 raised in 2 weeks at $200 a pop, we'll know pretty quickly whether it's on pace or not and if not they can work on getting something else lined up from an idea perspective. The idea that the first item has to be some uber-great thing that will generate the most interest is flawed, you end up wasting a lot of time just trying to figure out what that item is before getting any raw data about what people are willing to spend. With the PI release including pre-Gish stuff, interest in that era will probably be a bit higher than usual from the hardcore fan perspective, and as Billy said that is the audience for almost all of this material. The goal isn't to find something that, to use Billy's words, "your gramma" would buy.

EDIT: Didn't mean to make this sound so militant, I just think that data gathered from a Kickstarter campaign, even a failed one, is infinitely more valuable than data gathered from Facebook comments and messageboard posts.

Chris Hill

[Kreatorkind]

Are there any opportunities available to listen to the archives to help narrow it down?

[Bountiful_Wasteland]

Kreatorkind, on 17 April 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Are there any opportunities available to listen to the archives to help narrow it down?

Billy mentioned that samples were definitely doable

[Kreatorkind]

Bountiful_Wasteland, on 17 April 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Billy mentioned that samples were definitely doable

No, I mean helping to go through all the raw audio to find all the good stuff.

[paranoidclone]

Not to mention it's an absolutely easy sell to almost ALL fans, if you're gonna go big what better way to start

...the Rubano Tapes, that is. (Coinciding with the PI release. Sorry JC fans)

This post has been edited by paranoidclone: 17 April 2012 - 06:13 PM

[mayday27]

I have a VHS of a mayo song where he sings the wrong lyrics and stops when realizing. Anyone know which concert that's from?

I havent watched it though in a real long time

[paranoidclone]

@thomcrossmusic also on @sprecordclub a compilation of the Rubano Tapes (roughly 50 hours of early SP live + rehearsals) in the spring2012 -@billy (Dec 1st)

Guess my memory is slipping

[_________]

ChrisHill, on 17 April 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

Please, for the love of god, Kickstarter the Rubano tapes. Catalog the dates, setlists, etc. of what's included, put up some sound clips of the "best" and "worst" in terms of sound quality, and start at what you need to break even and price from there (i.e. if the project needs $20,000 to break even, give it a try first at $200 and see if we can convince 100 people to buy in. If not, rinse and repeat at $100 and see if we can get 200 people). This way Billy isn't doing all the work up front like he described, and in essence the market is setting the price. The only up front work is the cataloging (which should already be done) and the creation and hosting of the sound clips.

If you're never able to get $20,000 out of it, no matter what price you set it at, then try the same process again with something else from a different era, or maybe something that requires a smaller amount of money to break even (a small vinyl pressing instead of a box set, for example, may only need $10,000 to break even, I don't know). But the only way you're going to find out what works and what doesn't is actually putting stuff on Kickstarter, where it's not just empty promises and polling, and see what sticks.

Chris Hill

Basically, this. Do a Kickstarter campaign, give the superfans some (good) collector's item or reward out of it for donating, but then release the rest online for free. Maybe even do two Kickstarters, one to pay for the work and research to be done (with some smaller reward maybe), then move on to the actual release and do another for that. After the first Kickstarter, do some sort of online preview and feedback system to suss out what is worth a more formal release. You can price in whatever labor or materials are needed for all that.

[breathesgelatin]

Can we please appoint ChrisHill to the Lucky 13?

I'm serious here. Please, please, please.