[*zero*]

another band that captures our imaginations and our hearts as SP have done. a band with the same level of artistic vision, the same kind of larger-than-life personal chemistry between members, the same kind of depth and emotional impact in their music and artwork.

yes/no and why.

discuss.

[smashp1979]

I doubt it. Not in my mind.

[*zero*]

*zero*, on 28 June 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

why.

[HypnoRaygun]

Time will tell about this band, but I think The Joy Formidable are absolutely amazing. They put so much energy into their live shows. I could go on, but they are my vote as far as a newer band goes. I don't think they will get to a SP level, but you never know.

[Razorstar]

Yes and no.

No- because they're a unique, proposition and a product of a time and a place that is gone, and because Billy Corgan has a specific and unique voice (literally and metaphorically). People don't reincarnate and the circumstances will never be right to cook this recipe again.

And yes. Because Smashing Pumpkins were hardly the first band to do all of those things. There are dozens, and there always will be. There are people that will say the same thing, EXACTLY the same thing about The Cure or The Smiths, or Muse or My Chemical Romance, or Lady Gaga, or Radiohead or Jay-Z or Suede... there'll always be artists that make a quick buck, and go shallow and cheap. But that's okay because they'll always be others that value artistry, that dodge what you'd expect them to do, that embrace happy and sad, quiet and loud, epic and pop, and throw out the rule book. You might not like those bands, but someone will feel the way you do about SP. Not all of those artists are for me, but they're all carrying the same torch in their own way. They weren't the first, and they won't be the last.

[*zero*]

HypnoRaygun, on 28 June 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

Time will tell about this band, but I think The Joy Formidable are absolutely amazing. They put so much energy into their live shows. I could go on, but they are my vote as far as a newer band goes. I don't think they will get to a SP level, but you never know.

i like TJF but that may or may not have a lot to do with them having a cute frontwoman.

seriously though, no. energy in the live show has nothing to do with what i'm describing.

Razorstar, on 28 June 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

Yes and no.

No- because they're a unique, proposition and a product of a time and a place that is gone, and because Billy Corgan has a specific and unique voice (literally and metaphorically). People don't reincarnate and the circumstances will never be right to cook this recipe again.

And yes. Because Smashing Pumpkins were hardly the first band to do all of those things. There are dozens, and there always will be. There are people that will say the same thing, EXACTLY the same thing about The Cure or The Smiths, or Muse or My Chemical Romance, or Lady Gaga, or Radiohead or Jay-Z or Suede... there'll always be artists that make a quick buck, and go shallow and cheap. But that's okay because they'll always be others that value artistry, that dodge what you'd expect them to do, that embrace happy and sad, quiet and loud, epic and pop, and throw out the rule book. You might not like those bands, but someone will feel the way you do about SP. Not all of those artists are for me, but they're all carrying the same torch in their own way. They weren't the first, and they won't be the last.

i'm not suggesting that a new artist could necessarily be a clone of SP, if that's what you think. i'm just wondering if another band will ever embody the same artistic and personal dynamics that made SP unique. i like most of those other bands you mentioned and i think they have achieved a great deal - the Cure, Smiths, Muse and Radiohead at least certainly had a profound and lasting impact on their audience - but I'm asking people here to identify what makes SP's impact different from those other bands. my favourite song in the world is probably Just Like Heaven and it makes me cry every time, but I don't think the Cure ever had, for want of a better term, the larger-than-life magical realism that SP's career had 1988-2000. i want people here to ask themselves what that quality is and where it comes from.

[*zero*]

ps. if we don't get some good discussion in here i will lobotomize you all ^ ^

[OsamaMyLlama]

i think the cloesest we have come to a second SP was saves the day, but more poppy.

[*zero*]

OsamaMyLlama, on 28 June 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

i think the cloesest we have come to a second SP was saves the day, but more poppy.

yeah, saves the day. definitely.

[OsamaMyLlama]

*zero*, on 28 June 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

yeah, saves the day. definitely.

Good to see another fellow std fan, like SP they change so many styles and genres each album that its hard to find people that stuck with chris so long.

The band also has one really similar thing i noticed, both band had alot of inner disputes and hostility that led to losing members frequently and never having a full band, just one member(billy and chris) doing their own thing, but both bands after a while found their sweet spot, billy with this new line up, and chris with their new line up. You look at these new line ups and see how they interact and you know that they are here to stay. And seeing how good the last records have been for both these bands im so looking foreword to whats to come.

[*zero*]

did you hear that, billy? after hours of exhaustive debate, we have determined that saves the day are the true successors to your legacy. i suggest you call them up right now and arrange a conference.

[crestfallen73]

OsamaMyLlama, on 28 June 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

Good to see another fellow std fan

I know you didn't mean it this way, but I still chuckled. :rofl:/>

[TwoHeadedBoy]

*zero*, on 28 June 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

did you hear that, billy? after hours of exhaustive debate, we have determined that saves the day are the true successors to your legacy. i suggest you call them up right now and arrange a conference.

... maybe we should hold out a big longer before making that decision, hm? :lick:/>

[*zero*]

25 years of pumpkin humor and you guys still don't get sarcasm. no wonder billy hates you.

[nasalscarecrow]

Yes in what a band tries to do, no in what they achieve.

HypnoRaygun, on 28 June 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

Time will tell about this band, but I think The Joy Formidable are absolutely amazing. They put so much energy into their live shows. I could go on, but they are my vote as far as a newer band goes. I don't think they will get to a SP level, but you never know.

Great band! Did you hear about the secret gig they did in Manchester? It was a Clarks shows promotion and they played in a swimming pool! Acoustic set at the shallow end then electric set in the deep end.

[*zero*]

nasalscarecrow, on 28 June 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

It was a Clarks shows promotion and they played in a swimming pool! Acoustic set at the shallow end then electric set in the deep end.

They can play underwater!? :wtf:/>

[OsamaMyLlama]

crestfallen73, on 28 June 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

I know you didn't mean it this way, but I still chuckled. :rofl:/>

No its ok, i chuckled while typing that too.

[nasalscarecrow]

*zero*, on 28 June 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

They can play underwater!? :wtf:/>

What can I say? They're really talented.

Did I neglect to mention the swimming pool was in an old Victorian baths that was recently done up but has yet to be reopened for swimming!? :p/> To be fair, it's not the first time I've seen bands play in a swimming pool. Birmingham's Supersonic Festival has a stage in a swimming pool. I saw Melt-Banana and Napalm Death in it a few years back. Is this the new venue trend? Suppose it beats expensive O2 Academies!

[vsnares]

Saves the Day?! No way, they're like a power pop band. The Smashing Pumpkins are prog, metal, goth, shoegaze.

Anyway, of course there will be lots of bands with great artistic vision, but personally I can guarantee there will never be another SP for me. I listen to music constantly, and lots of it touches me in emotional ways, but I've moved on and barely even listen to rock and roll anymore. For example, Midtown 120 Blues by DJ Spinkles is one of the best records I've ever heard, but it's deep house. And these days I can say that I like Neil Young more than Billy.

So will we ever love another band so dearly that we felt understood us when nobody else did? That spoke to us so clearly at that exact time in our lives? No, there will never be another Smashing Pumpkins.

[the_farewell_party]

The reason the OP probably won't get answers he wants to hear is because he came to a site where everybody's favorite band is The Smashing Pumpkins and asked us all "you think anyone will ever be as awesome as them?" Taste is subjective, so a lot of people probably think their favorite band is as awesome as we think The Pumpkins are. And, because we all think The Pumpkins are the best thing since the sundial, and the criteria we have come to that conclusion on is pretty subjective and emotional, it would be next to impossible for anyone to come up with satisfying answers.

[OsamaMyLlama]

vsnares, on 28 June 2012 - 04:37 PM, said:

Saves the Day?! No way, they're like a power pop band. The Smashing Pumpkins are prog, metal, goth, shoegaze.

power pop?








weird definition of power pop

I know their old stuff is poppy but thing is......none of the saves the day albums sound remotely alike, and im not saying they are the next SP based off how they sound but rather their similar experiences and career progression

[whyisnohere?]

*zero*, on 28 June 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

i like TJF but that may or may not have a lot to do with them having a cute frontwoman.

seriously though, no. energy in the live show has nothing to do with what i'm describing.




i'm not suggesting that a new artist could necessarily be a clone of SP, if that's what you think. i'm just wondering if another band will ever embody the same artistic and personal dynamics that made SP unique. i like most of those other bands you mentioned and i think they have achieved a great deal - the Cure, Smiths, Muse and Radiohead at least certainly had a profound and lasting impact on their audience - but I'm asking people here to identify what makes SP's impact different from those other bands. my favourite song in the world is probably Just Like Heaven and it makes me cry every time, but I don't think the Cure ever had, for want of a better term, the larger-than-life magical realism that SP's career had 1988-2000. i want people here to ask themselves what that quality is and where it comes from.

the only reason the cure might not seem to have had that to you is that they never achieved quite the level of commercial success the pumpkins did--so they were never as much in the vanguard/zeitgeist of pop music as sp was. the cure weren't juxtaposed against other brilliant, sort of likeminded and sort of not alt bands of their day _depeche mode, new order, smiths, rem, u2, psych furs, bunnymen, banshees, joy division) the way sp were (pearl jam, nirvana, soundgarden, alice, tool, nin, radiohead, mm, rhcp).
?
but in every other way--the themes of the music, the genius ability to go from pop to goth to hard rock to dreampop to epics, the cult following, the visual innovation of the videos, stage shows and album sleeves/vinyls/boxes, the endless b-sides and legendary live shows, the makeup, the flair, the drama, the romanticism, the genius musicianship and songwriting overlooked by critics because of the over the top nature of the bands and their leaders--really there is little difference between the 2 bands. bc once called sp the "american cure"...which makes perfect sense.

i think a good follow-up question would be this: what other bands have ever existed in rock history with the ability to dabble in and essentially own so many different sub-styles of rock/pop music, while retaining that much artistic integrity, innovating, and selling tons of records, along with having a huge, epic feel? in other words, have any other bands had the balls AND the chops AND the heart. all at once, to the degree that SP has?

off the top of my head?

beatles (kinda)
the who
led zeppelin (kinda)
queen
u2 (lid1

[*zero*]

the_farewell_party, on 28 June 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

The reason the OP probably won't get answers he wants to hear is because he came to a site where everybody's favorite band is The Smashing Pumpkins and asked us all "you think anyone will ever be as awesome as them?" Taste is subjective, so a lot of people probably think their favorite band is as awesome as we think The Pumpkins are. And, because we all think The Pumpkins are the best thing since the sundial, and the criteria we have come to that conclusion on is pretty subjective and emotional, it would be next to impossible for anyone to come up with satisfying answers.

Actually my question was kind of rhetorical. I just want to see if there are any other fans out there who think about SP like I do- who perceive that there is really something magical about them that no other band has, and who try to understand why. So really the question is more like "where is this generation's Billy Corgan". Is there not one young songwriter out there with the same level of ambition and talent to create a legacy comparable to SP's? And where is this generation's Jimmy Chamberlin- an extremely proficient drummer who understands all the subtle nuances that make Jimmy's playing so fluid and emotionally connective? Is there no one out there who has truly comprehended the secrets of SP's power and been able to find those qualities in themselves?

I ask because until people like that are discovered, another band like SP will not come to be. Those individuals would need to have the following obvious, but surprisingly rare qualities:

1) to like virtually all the music that their songwriter creates. Billy has said that SP almost never disagreed over musical/artistic direction. That was a godsend. Every musician I've ever played with, by contrast, has only liked or "got" certain songs but not others, which is frustrating when you're striving for the same kind of musical diversity as a band like SP.

2) personality, attitude, humor. who has them anymore? musicians are dull. generation x's art for sarcasm, irony and self deprecation are lost on today's youth.

3) unless the members of the band have a similar level of compositional ability which would allow them to write in a democratic way (although this is rarely the case, in my opinion) then they should always respect the main musical visionary of the band - the songwriter - and be willing to commit themselves to supporting his or her vision. in my experience with bands, most amateur musicians are severely deluded about their abilities and see themselves as leaders when they are in fact followers. this is a common problem. when it's not a problem, the band works.

4) willingness to be a workaholic on a level that most bands aren't. all those b-sides and boxed sets don't produce themselves. if you're committed to creating a deep and expansive legacy that stands the test of time, you can't be lazy. and yet, most musicians i've met can't even seem to roll out of bed in the morning.


Billy is frustrated with the state of music and he wonders why no young bands have come through to replace SP or the other big bands of his generation. This is a vital question. The curious thing is that nobody seems to be asking it. Are people now just so over-saturated with entertainment and technology that they've forgotten how to read between the lines and see that bands have lost their attitude and sense of purpose in this culture? Somehow, in the last ten years, people have become desensitised to the issues in music that matter, and they've become lazy at making it. And I would argue that most music fans aren't really "fans" anymore, because they don't intellectualize or philosophize about the artists they follow. So few people have anything to say to what Billy has been talking about in interviews for the last few years, and that is worrying. No, music fans in 2012 are merely consumers.

[whyisnohere?]

the cure is very much on the same plane.

[Whicker]

OsamaMyLlama, on 28 June 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

power pop?

youtube vids

weird definition of power pop

I know their old stuff is poppy but thing is......none of the saves the day albums sound remotely alike, and im not saying they are the next SP based off how they sound but rather their similar experiences and career progression

sounds like punk to me...

[agent_cooper]

HypnoRaygun, on 28 June 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

Time will tell about this band, but I think The Joy Formidable are absolutely amazing. They put so much energy into their live shows. I could go on, but they are my vote as far as a newer band goes. I don't think they will get to a SP level, but you never know.

thanks for the tip, good band didn't know them.
i always thought, in terms of attitude, uniqueness and riffingstyle + use of ebow And you will know us by the trail of dead came pretty near

[Fernando]

OsamaMyLlama, on 28 June 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

i think the cloesest we have come to a second SP was saves the day, but more poppy.

Oh, please, stop, that band is not even good.

[OsamaMyLlama]

Fernando, on 30 June 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Oh, please, stop, that band is not even good.

man i freaking pity you if you dont like them, your missing out so freaking much.

[RottingApples]

*zero*, on 28 June 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

but I don't think the Cure ever had, for want of a better term, the larger-than-life magical realism that SP's career had 1988-2000.

If you went on a Cure board, you'd find plenty who would disagree with that. And plenty would disagree with your assessment of SP. You feel that way about the Pumpkins, but others could very well be moved just as much by a particular era of The Cure or Depeche Mode or Garbage or REM, and to them they may feel just as strongly and deeply about them as you do about SP. While I personally agree with the sentiment of how powerful and important 90's Pumpkins was, there is no objective level that can ever be reached when you're talking about a fan's connection to particular music. I have friends who absolutely hate the Pumpkins, but when they talk about their favorite band I sense just how meaningful and important that music is to them, on the same level the Pumpkins have been for me.

[Fernando]

They sound like a generic pop punk/emo punk. Pumpkins are everything, but generic.

[RottingApples]

OsamaMyLlama, on 30 June 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

man i freaking pity you if you dont like them, your missing out so freaking much.

I find them annoying and emo-y, and nowhere near the level of the Pumpkins. But again, that's just me.

the_farewell_party, on 28 June 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

The reason the OP probably won't get answers he wants to hear is because he came to a site where everybody's favorite band is The Smashing Pumpkins and asked us all "you think anyone will ever be as awesome as them?" Taste is subjective, so a lot of people probably think their favorite band is as awesome as we think The Pumpkins are. And, because we all think The Pumpkins are the best thing since the sundial, and the criteria we have come to that conclusion on is pretty subjective and emotional, it would be next to impossible for anyone to come up with satisfying answers.

Indeed.

[OsamaMyLlama]

Fernando, on 30 June 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

They sound like a generic pop punk/emo punk. Pumpkins are everything, but generic.

congrats you missed the point. heres your hint: I never said they sound like SP

[Fernando]

They don't need to sound like Pumpkins, but if you wanna see anorther band like pumpkins, the band can't be generic like STD.

[*zero*]

RottingApples, on 30 June 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

If you went on a Cure board, you'd find plenty who would disagree with that. And plenty would disagree with your assessment of SP. You feel that way about the Pumpkins, but others could very well be moved just as much by a particular era of The Cure or Depeche Mode or Garbage or REM, and to them they may feel just as strongly and deeply about them as you do about SP. While I personally agree with the sentiment of how powerful and important 90's Pumpkins was, there is no objective level that can ever be reached when you're talking about a fan's connection to particular music. I have friends who absolutely hate the Pumpkins, but when they talk about their favorite band I sense just how meaningful and important that music is to them, on the same level the Pumpkins have been for me.

actually i take back what i said about the cure. i do think they had a magical realism, but it was always centered around robert- i never felt a personal connection to anyone else in the band throughout the various lineups, because they were really just silent backing musicians. this is a good example of the difference i'm talking about between SP and other bands. SP's fans feel a much stronger than average connection with each individual SP member because they had distinct, cartoonish personalities that illustrated the character of the music in a way that i don't think you can say about many other bands. for the record, i'm not suggesting that SP are the only band with "magical realism" - i certainly think the cure and garbage had it, two of my favourite bands - but i would argue that no band had it on quite the same level as SP for many reasons. i will gladly get into them, but frankly, if you don't already intuitively see that there was an almost magical depth and grandeur to SP's career 1988-2000 (and not just in their output but in their personal lives as well) that is unmatched by any band before or since, then we're not speaking the same language here. while you or most people may just see SP as a cool interesting band, to me they are more like a living fairytale. a combination of elements so stunningly unlikely that it seems miraculous. i'm surprised that more people don't see that.

and it IS provable. everything can be objectified and measured. most bands' accomplishments pale into insignificance next to SP's.

[Inertia]

Um, I don't think you can measure personality from an objective standpoint. What I define as a "cool" or charismatic personality can be different from yours.

[*zero*]

Inertia, on 30 June 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

What I define as a "cool" or charismatic personality can be different from yours.

but there must be objective reasons for why people have different tastes.

when those are identified, world peace will be consummated.

[samuelmills]

Corgan was the first to utilize myspace as a way to lead listeners to online music (this is from an interview with Tom from myspace). Corgan also made releasing free music online a popular idea. i know other bands have done this, but i wonder how many did this before Machina 2.

i think it's amazing that Corgan is the only member remaining from the original lineup, and yet the music hasn't suffered a bit. this says a lot about him and his ability to push forward even with completely different tools.

IMO, they will go down as one of the most influential bands in the history of rock.

[awsmsc]

*zero*, on 28 June 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

another band that captures our imaginations and our hearts as SP have done. a band with the same level of artistic vision, the same kind of larger-than-life personal chemistry between members, the same kind of depth and emotional impact in their music and artwork.

I'm assuming you mean also "a band without BC".

I think the 3 best albums ever are SD/MCIS/Adore, and there's a lot less music left to make that can have a good enough level of originality to qualify, so I doubt it.

[*zero*]

awsmsc, on 30 June 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

I think the 3 best albums ever are SD/MCIS/Adore, and there's a lot less music left to make that can have a good enough level of originality to qualify, so I doubt it.

wat

[V_____]

Yes. I just need a drummer.

[stevie.b]

Whicker, on 29 June 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

sounds like punk to me...

Agreed sounds like punk to me. They are in noways near the same league as sp. Lol

[Julian]

So I just looked up some Saves the Day. This is a fucking pop-punk band.

the_farewell_party, on 28 June 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

The reason the OP probably won't get answers he wants to hear is because he came to a site where everybody's favorite band is The Smashing Pumpkins and asked us all "you think anyone will ever be as awesome as them?" Taste is subjective, so a lot of people probably think their favorite band is as awesome as we think The Pumpkins are. And, because we all think The Pumpkins are the best thing since the sundial, and the criteria we have come to that conclusion on is pretty subjective and emotional, it would be next to impossible for anyone to come up with satisfying answers.

I just realised that you always make really well argued, reasonable posts. They're like beacons in this forum.

[MrLee192]

We live in a generation where peoples heroes are a bunch of guys that look like they sat in the nerds computer room all their childhood, making music so light and so naff its remarkable it gets called rock music.

So no, i doubt youll get another Smashing Pumpkins, let alone any bands that are remotely as good as that again. If you do, you wont hear of them because they wont get signed and pushed.

[*zero*]

shit. this thread is too good for you guys. not one of you gets it.