[JSapp]

100k? Zeitgeist did 500. You see an 80% drop in 5 years? Did all the pumpkin fans die?

[awsmsc]

Well, buying albums has probably gotten less popular in general since then, but since Oceania will be better than Zeitgeist, and probably get at least almost as much promotion as Zeitgeist got, I'd be surprised if it got less than 400k.

[JSapp]

That's what I'm saying. At least half of the people who bought Zeitgeist will buy Oceania and if they promote it with a single etc.. It will pick up some new buyers. 400k sounds likely

This post has been edited by JSapp: 22 February 2012 - 06:02 PM

[Parksey]

yeah but everyone hated zeitgeist

[Gr3g3]

JSapp, on 22 February 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

100k? Zeitgeist did 500. You see an 80% drop in 5 years? Did all the pumpkin fans die?

You know I'm not dead.

[gyang333]

Parksey, on 22 February 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

yeah but everyone hated zeitgeist

please don't use hyperbole. not everyone hated zeitgeist. How can I make such a claim? because I liked it.

JSapp, on 22 February 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

100k? Zeitgeist did 500. You see an 80% drop in 5 years? Did all the pumpkin fans die?

awsmsc, on 22 February 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

Well, buying albums has probably gotten less popular in general since then, but since Oceania will be better than Zeitgeist, and probably get at least almost as much promotion as Zeitgeist got, I'd be surprised if it got less than 400k.

JSapp, on 22 February 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

That's what I'm saying. At least half of the people who bought Zeitgeist will buy Oceania and if they promote it with a single etc.. It will pick up some new buyers. 400k sounds likely

Zeitgeist only technically sold ~400k records in the US. They shipped 500k off to retailers.

[chemicalbehavior]

gyang333, on 22 February 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

yeah but everyone hated zeitgeist


please don't use hyperbole. not everyone hated zeitgeist. How can I make such a claim? because I liked it.

I love Zeitgeist. I personally love the "later" Pumpkins stuff starting with Adore forward.

I personally can't stand anything pre-Adore. Never understood what the fuss of Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie was all about. :rolleyes:/>

[LostSoul]

Roll eyes? Why, does it pain you that most hold those two albums above all others?

I love all of their stuff equally from 1991-2000. I like Pre-Gish & enjoy some of Zeitgeist & TbK. Mellon Collie is my personal favorite, followed by Adore & Machina. I have high expectations for Oceania.

[chemicalbehavior]

LostSoul, on 22 February 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

Roll eyes? Why, does it pain you that most hold those two albums above all others?

I love all of their stuff equally from 1991-2000. I like Pre-Gish & enjoy some of Zeitgeist & TbK. Mellon Collie is my personal favorite, followed by Adore & Machina. I have high expectations for Oceania.

Doesn't pain me at all. Like what you wanna like. It doesn't matter to me.

[LostSoul]

Good civilized response. Half the people here would fly off the handle. :)/>

[Deleted User Account]

LostSoul, on 22 February 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Good civilized response. Half the people here would fly off the handle. :)/>

I'm actually jacking myself up on morphine right now so I don't rage chemicalbehavior off the internet.

[chrisothoulos]

chemicalbehavior, on 22 February 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

I love Zeitgeist. I personally love the "later" Pumpkins stuff starting with Adore forward.

I personally can't stand anything pre-Adore. Never understood what the fuss of Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie was all about. :rolleyes:/>

Well I agree on preferring the Adore and later era stuff.. but not understanding the fuss of the earlier albums is crazy... you sir are crazy.

[LostSoul]

ArticulateEric, on 22 February 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

I'm actually jacking myself up on morphine right now so I don't rage chemicalbehavior off the internet.

:lol:/>

[chemicalbehavior]

LostSoul, on 22 February 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Good civilized response. Half the people here would fly off the handle. :)/>

Thanks. :)/>

I know I'm one of a very small minority of people who prefers the Pumpkins' later stuff to their earlier stuff. I've never really understood the general hate/frustration with Pumpkin albums such as Adore or Zeitgeist. I think they're both fine albums and each reminds me of a specific time in my life (high school with Adore, college with Zeitgeist).

I'm really looking forward to Oceania. Just wish that details such as the album's release date would be announced soon.

[Deleted User Account]

chemicalbehavior, on 22 February 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

Thanks. :)/>

I know I'm one of a very small minority of people who prefers the Pumpkins' later stuff to their earlier stuff. I've never really understood the general hate/frustration with Pumpkin albums such as Adore or Zeitgeist. I think they're both fine albums and each reminds me of a specific time in my life (high school with Adore, college with Zeitgeist).

I'm really looking forward to Oceania. Just wish that details such as the album's release date would be announced soon.

Nostalgia is a helluva drug.

[chemicalbehavior]

ArticulateEric, on 22 February 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

I'm actually jacking myself up on morphine right now so I don't rage chemicalbehavior off the internet.

Lol :D/>

[Deleted User Account]

re: nerd rage: WTF, every nerd knows Marvel is better than DC. Or it was. That's like, the nerd argument everyone starts with. That's square one. Marvel had interesting and flawed characters, DC had Superman... enough said.

[chemicalbehavior]

ArticulateEric, on 22 February 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

re: nerd rage: WTF, every nerd knows Marvel is better than DC. Or it was. That's like, the nerd argument everyone starts with. That's square one. Marvel had interesting and flawed characters, DC had Superman... enough said.

+1

[Gr3g3]

Marvel > DC. Not even close. And if someone told me Phantom Menace was their favorite Star Wars movie, I would drop kick their throat.


But back to SP. I wouldnt be surprised if it outsold Zeitgeist. That's my hope at this point.

[JSapp]

Gr3g3, on 22 February 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

But back to SP. I wouldnt be surprised if it outsold Zeitgeist. That's my hope at this point.

Me too. I think with decent promotion it will. I think there is a base for a SP album that isn't too much lower than what Zeitgeist sold. Hardcore fans and nostalgic people who grew up in the 90's. These people will buy the album regardless. Now if its promoted well, receives positive reviews and is good, sales could be pretty good. Alot of ifs though

[slunk_4ever]

but remember zeitegist had the technicolor rainbow of albums and I myself bought 2 versions for the extra tracks, so think about all the album sales for zeitgeist actually being 100K total people, buying 5 copies of the same record for the extra tracks.

"Oceania" should sell more especially cause of the re-issues that have come out and resurged the pumpkins early stuff.

[Gr3g3]

Did people actually buy all the different colored Zeitgeist's? I just bought one and downloaded the extra tracks. Wasn't going to spend that much just for one extra track on each CD.

[marquisinspades]

Gr3g3, on 23 February 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

Did people actually buy all the different colored Zeitgeist's? I just bought one and downloaded the extra tracks. Wasn't going to spend that much just for one extra track on each CD.

No

To return to the OP, why care? Let's face it SP no longer represent popular culture, and that friends is no bad thing. Art is art and people like different types. It has nothing to do with money, advertising, halls of shame, nor plastic trophies.


http://static3.shopi...mdiagram600.gif

[eyeboogers]

Gr3g3, on 23 February 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

Did people actually buy all the different colored Zeitgeist's? I just bought one and downloaded the extra tracks. Wasn't going to spend that much just for one extra track on each CD.

Honestly i ended up buying three copies. I pre-ordered the limited edition giant booklet version. When delivery of this got delayed i went out and bought the standard edition. A year or so later i also picked up the silver best buy edition for the bonus tracks.

Part of me is annoyed about having to re-buy the record to get the whole thing but then i also remember the pre-napster days when i'd happily go out and buy an expensive japan only e.p or some soundtrack album cause there would be a single song from a band i liked.

[gyang333]

Gr3g3, on 23 February 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

Did people actually buy all the different colored Zeitgeist's? I just bought one and downloaded the extra tracks. Wasn't going to spend that much just for one extra track on each CD.

I did. well, I ordered the purple after the fact on ebay.

http://i.imgur.com/ipKFH.jpg

and technically, the blue one is just a picture, I bought it on itunes but I didn't like the blue cover art so I use the red one, but I did buy the itunes one as well.

[Deleted User Account]

I have one copy currently packaged up and yet still somehow embarrassing me 100 miles away.

[TwoHeadedBoy]

:lol:/>

[ShamanO]

gyang333, on 23 February 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

I did. well, I ordered the purple after the fact on ebay.

http://i.imgur.com/ipKFH.jpg

and technically, the blue one is just a picture, I bought it on itunes but I didn't like the blue cover art so I use the red one, but I did buy the itunes one as well.

if you would have had your monitor on and had a Zeitgeist desktop on it that would have made this pic even better.

[Deleted User Account]

In terms of sales though, you have to consider the Pumpkins, even after Adore and Machina, had a lot of goodwill and momentum behind them come the reunion in 2007. I think a lot of people bought Zeitgeist expecting something other than what it was... that's when the renewed doubt set in, and Billy kind of blew his second chance. Now a lot of the general public considers the reunion a joke. Even if Oceania is killer, it's going to do significantly less business than Zeitgeist. If anything, it'll pave the way for future releases to do better, but I have a feeling regardless of quality, Oceania is going to be the least successful Pumpkins album. Easily. Happy to be wrong, but that's my prediction.

[cleric]

in terms of sales, i love the highest selling ones best.

[Dusty]

The one big x factor of course is the terms of the record deal. I think the Pumpkins are in a better place publicly than they were in 2007. The boost Zeitgeist would have gotten was the "reunion" buzz, old fans who were curious about the new direction, and I think a lot of that buzz was generated less organically and more by the promotional push behind the album. If Oceania does have a successful single, and good promotion, it could sell. I don't think super-well; I would hope it sold about as well as Zeitgeist. That would make me happy. :)/>

[BitterRootOfSelf]

I would be more concerned about selling out shows than record sales. It would be cool to see SP play late night shows like SNL, Jimmy Kimmel, Jimmy Fallon, and Conan. Just please dont play Leno lol.

[awsmsc]

Parksey, on 22 February 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

yeah but everyone hated zeitgeist

Yeah, but they'll come back if the single makes them go "........whoa"

[frednirv632]

BitterRootOfSelf, on 23 February 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

I would be more concerned about selling out shows than record sales. It would be cool to see SP play late night shows like SNL, Jimmy Kimmel, Jimmy Fallon, and Conan. Just please dont play Leno lol.

I think it would be relatively easy to argue the following: more record sales = more exposure = more tour dates

[LostSoul]

Yup^.

Although, I do hope to see them in a smaller venue just once more this year, lest they begin playing larger ones. That was part of the reason the audience felt so disconnected from the band in 2007/2008, and Billy from the audience, as well. Was not the most enjoyable experience, really...

[black saint]

I agree that the state of the music industry these days is beyond aweful but the problem isn't that there aren't a lot of good rock bands out there, the problem is that with everyone only downloading singles verses buying records the industry probably considers one hit wonders or commercial pop artists to be the only way to make money. real music fans who like artists who can write their own songs and know how to play an instrument still buy albums but the vast majority of people the industry is catering to is people who like what seems in at the time, this is easily the worst time in music since the boy band/ nu metal era. i'll be telling everyone about oceania because from the live recordings i've heard that record is going to be amazing! but as much as i hate to say it things aren't going to change any time soon and real artists are going to take a backseat to garbage like lady gaga, katy perry, nicky minaj, and justin beiber. but i hope that changes.

[RottingApples]

black saint, on 26 February 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

I agree that the state of the music industry these days is beyond aweful but the problem isn't that there aren't a lot of good rock bands out there, the problem is that with everyone only downloading singles verses buying records the industry probably considers one hit wonders or commercial pop artists to be the only way to make money. real music fans who like artists who can write their own songs and know how to play an instrument still buy albums but the vast majority of people the industry is catering to is people who like what seems in at the time, this is easily the worst time in music since the boy band/ nu metal era. i'll be telling everyone about oceania because from the live recordings i've heard that record is going to be amazing! but as much as i hate to say it things aren't going to change any time soon and real artists are going to take a backseat to garbage like lady gaga, katy perry, nicky minaj, and justin beiber. but i hope that changes.

We're back to a pre-Beatles mentality of singles only. Sure the medium's different (digital vs. 7" singles) but the mentality has gone full circle back to that time. And sadly it'll probably remain that way for quite a while. It will take something very different to come along and change the mass taste to want to digest a full body of work again, like you had in the late 60s. I don't think Corgan was that far off a few years back when he said it'll take a multimedia package for people to want to listen to albums (interactive content, video, etc.). It's that no one (including himself) has found a way yet to successfully deliver that, enough so that it crosses over and you get the younger kids investing in it.

[Elphenor]

ArticulateEric, on 22 February 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

re: nerd rage: WTF, every nerd knows Marvel is better than DC. Or it was. That's like, the nerd argument everyone starts with. That's square one. Marvel had interesting and flawed characters, DC had Superman... enough said.

Whoa, whoa, whoa,

Marvel is NOT better than DC.

DC has Batman.

DC wins

Actually I ran a poll on this board and out of the all of 6 people who voted DC was voted to be superior.
:happy:/>

[vescret]

batman is the greatest superhero ever created that is all.

[chemicalbehavior]

flippingsweet779, on 26 February 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

Whoa, whoa, whoa,

Marvel is NOT better than DC.

DC has Batman.

DC wins

Actually I ran a poll on this board and out of the all of 6 people who voted DC was voted to be superior.
:happy:/>

Whow! Those were the results from a poll you posted on this messageboard? That settles it then. I'll call Marvel tomorrow and break the news.

:rolleyes:/>

[mayday27]

Weather it sells or not I hope they are supportive of the album even in the face of rude interviewers or whatever. This way they win even if they lose. he has a tendency to set himself up for unmet expectations even when the results are good. Its like a motivation to fulfill a habit for the need to feel disappointment even when things are good. I truly hope out of all the not so good things that could happen that this will not happen. To me this is Much worse than low sales

[ItsSoPringles]

awsmsc, on 22 February 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

Well, buying albums has probably gotten less popular in general since then, but since Oceania will be better than Zeitgeist, and probably get at least almost as much promotion as Zeitgeist got, I'd be surprised if it got less than 400k.

ide be surprised if they even sold 100K

zeitgeist only sold so well because it was their comeback album and everyone had to hear it, because of that album SP lost a good portion of those fans, many of which they will never get back. and over the years since they lost more and more fans, i would be damn surprised if oceania sells decently, im thinking 10K-15k will be the sales they got for the first 2 weeks or so,

don't get me wrong, I want oceania to be huge and get SP back into the mainstream more than anything in the world.....but I'm not delusional, It isnt hard to notice just how far SP's star has fallen and from the way music is now they probably wont be getting it back anytime soon

[awsmsc]

ItsSoPringles, on 01 March 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

ide be surprised if they even sold 100K

zeitgeist only sold so well because it was their comeback album and everyone had to hear it, because of that album SP lost a good portion of those fans, many of which they will never get back. and over the years since they lost more and more fans, i would be damn surprised if oceania sells decently, im thinking 10K-15k will be the sales they got for the first 2 weeks or so,

don't get me wrong, I want oceania to be huge and get SP back into the mainstream more than anything in the world.....but I'm not delusional, It isnt hard to notice just how far SP's star has fallen and from the way music is now they probably wont be getting it back anytime soon

You're correct about Zeitgeist pissing people off (so maybe it'll only sell in the 200k-300k range) but I'm sure MORE people will listen to Oceania and like it (via torrenting) compared to Zeitgeist because Oceania will be good. That's going to sell itself. The fact that Zeitgeist was mediocre will only make the quality of Oceania stand out more, thereby making the (online small time) media promote it more (holy crap! it's actually good! no really! trust us! listen now!). This is basically what happened with Eminem's last album. If Relapse had been good, it would've made Recovery not seem like as big of a deal. We can't have the counter-factual, but I wouldn't be surprised if Oceania sells just as well/is listened to by just as many people in the Zeitgeist-was-good-parallel-universe compared to our own.

[Elphenor]

chemicalbehavior, on 26 February 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

Whow! Those were the results from a poll you posted on this messageboard? That settles it then. I'll call Marvel tomorrow and break the news.

:rolleyes:/>

Thanks, that will save me the trouble :happy:/>