[cleric]

AndyToe, on 14 April 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

Brilliant work there.
Tell billy that no matter what he charges, idiots are always there to line up because they're allergic to their money.

full whack does not equal paying anything. the full standard amount, obviously. at least then it may get the ball rolling for idiots here who want their mp3s.

[brandnewfan]

Wow, there's a lot of negativity...

I believe the problem lies with the fact that this archive project has been simply rumored about for years and years, with only very little action (at least action that is not behind the scenes) that fans just have a hard time believing that it's going to happen at all. So how about the Lucky 13/SPRC people warm us up with some initial & quick release...something that will be released in the next few months (looong before the end of the year)...to let us know this is serious, that it's happening? Not just another demo ready for download, and not something "special" included in the upcoming reissues, but rather a genuine CD or DVD of something that will make us all truly cream our pants and help to prove that this project is running at full steam ahead. I think that would help to soothe some of our weary minds. After all, we can plan things out, discuss price models, our various wish lists, etc, but if there's no proof to back it all up *to begin with* then it's going to be met with the "we've heard it all before" attitude from the fans.

[ShamanO]

brandnewfan, on 14 April 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

Wow, there's a lot of negativity...

I believe the problem lies with the fact that this archive project has been simply rumored about for years and years, with only very little action (at least action that is not behind the scenes) that fans just have a hard time believing that it's going to happen at all. So how about the Lucky 13/SPRC people warm us up with some initial & quick release...something that will be released in the next few months (looong before the end of the year)...to let us know this is serious, that it's happening? Not just another demo ready for download, and not something "special" included in the upcoming reissues, but rather a genuine CD or DVD of something that will make us all truly cream our pants and help to prove that this project is running at full steam ahead. I think that would help to soothe some of our weary minds. After all, we can plan things out, discuss price models, our various wish lists, etc, but if there's no proof to back it all up *to begin with* then it's going to be met with the "we've heard it all before" attitude from the fans.

well a change in the website is also to be included with these releases, so until that happens I dont think we are getting anything too soon.
prove me wrong PLEASE

[frosty]

just rotten apples to eat

[Lunatic]

How about we reserve our assumptions until we get the full info with this interview?

[RottingApples]

TheLucky13, on 13 April 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

In the future, we hope to offer some kind of archive guide. For the initial releases, it will probably be best to recommend to Billy material that we know exists and have waited quite some time for. For the project to be sustainable, a release has to at least break-even before moving on to the next. Does anyone oppose this stance?

:cheers:/> Very happy to hear. Sounds good to me.

[breathesgelatin]

TheLucky13, on 14 April 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

Ok. Would a list of names and SP-related credentials suffice? Is that want people want? Is the issue of the identity of the members so essential that this project cannot continue without? Please let us know. As stated before, we have to create a communal experience for this project to work.

It's just that I can see no conceivable reason why they would need/want to be anonymous, so hiding behind a veil of anonymity makes it seem like you all are concealing something. It's like it's some kind of secret society, which doesn't really serve the supposed goal of openness and communication. I'm not saying this is true of all of the members of Lucky 13, but it's clear that some of the "gatekeepers" (lol) get off on their supposed elite status. Bottom line, you are just giving Billy free labor so he doesn't have to sort through email (which let's face it, would just make him ragequit the whole SPRC project), or hire and pay someone to do it.

Also, some of the people that have Billy's ear... let's just say, I don't have confidence in their really knowing the recording and release history. I'm not sure I have much confidence in their ability to carry out sustained, high quality projects in general. If you want me to be more direct, I guess I could, but if you aren't going to be, why should I be?

Also, what's the point of us saying anything to you at this point if we don't know what's available in the archives? OK, Metro recording, a few things we know about. But other things may not even exist, so what's the point of us asking for them? Further, some of the things fans have asked for, Billy has already pooh-poohed (because our expectations are too high or some shit).

Finally, any talk about pricing or format seems premature. Anyone from the hardcore fandom right now might speculate or blather on about what they might or not buy, but until you're actually asking them to enter their credit card numbers, it doesn't mean shit.

[RottingApples]

frosty, on 14 April 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

oh yeah that's a good answer. :rolleyes:/>

Why does it matter? I couldn't care less who's involved and whether they want to remain anonymous. As long as the project happens, that's all I care about.

[ShamanO]

:(/> people's negativity is scaring me already since Billy has pulled the plug before over the bitching and complaining and we haven't even gotten the interview yet

[RottingApples]

Mayfair, on 14 April 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

no video, remember?

I remember. I just remain eternally optimistic that MTV might relinquish the rights to the footage as they can't have any use for it now. Foolish as it might be, I still feel this way. :coy:/>

[standing]

ive been reading this entire thread. i promise im not just trying to be negative, but i cant help remembering this same kind of attempt a few years ago with quinto. i feel the same excitement i did at that time, but now i also have mixed in there the feelings i had when i saw that it was over, and it was impossible for fans to come up with the magic numbers on pricing and format. I REALLY HOPE THINGS CAN WORK THIS TIME. here i will give my ideas:
1 : when it comes to format: you should look at the various types of things you have to release. for instance, lets say youre gonna end up releasing large amounts of quality soundboard shows. those should just go up as digital downloads. that way they come out faster and people can afford to keep up with them because they are cheaper. when you see that some historic show released in tbat way is selling like crazy, you can organize a dvd video of it to sell by order online. conversely, some things there are of course less of, like quality unheard studio rarities from each era. for those things, they could be compiled into physical releases that could probably even ship to stores. they would only be physical and thus would vost more. for instance, one could be a 2disc siamese rarities. however for it to hold its own as a physical release, it would have to be the real deal as a companion to siamese dream. the bonus disc in the box had WAY too much alt-version filler. if siamese box bonus disc were being released by itself it would fare much better as a download than a physical item.

2 : on concert releases (based on the above description of the release process): instead of just putting out a bunch of random shows whenever, you should put people on a journey that makes sense that they can follow. as you go througb what all is in tbe archive, you could put out the shows in relative chrological order. but not every show at first. just put out shows that are historic or that havve GREAT quality. then over time as you see what eras people are buying, you can fill in the gaps with other shows you haad skipped. as you move forward in time, you could provide write-ups with the releases that let people know they are seeing the history of the band unfold and how the band evolved live over time.


3 : for flow of the project, i would recommend generally staying with the era we are on in the reissue series. this would be good in a few ways. one: to instill faith inthe project, youll want to release A LOT early on; and since youre starting this project so long after the release of gish and siamese reissues, you have a shorter time during pisces and until mellon collie. so that would sort of force you to make a lot of releases to clear the way for mellon collie items once that reissue comes out. at that point maybe you could afford to slow down just a bit, since youd have all the time between mellon collie and adore to release mellon collie shows and rarities.


i hope i explained all this well. any obvious problems with my ideas that i overlooked?

[RottingApples]

cleric, on 14 April 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

edit - i now see that you want mayfair on board - someone who's been complaining about the band here on their website since 2007 at the latest. not interested in your project anymore. i never expected such idiocy. thanks for wasting my time.

:rolleyes:/>

[frosty]

RottingApples, on 14 April 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

Why does it matter? I couldn't care less who's involved and whether they want to remain anonymous. As long as the project happens, that's all I care about.

because it sounds like bs.

[crepe]

I might get killed for this, but am I the only one who doesnt care about the metro dvd? I'd rather have songs we never heard of from the MCIS sessions.

[RottingApples]

frosty, on 14 April 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

because it sounds like bs.

I don't see how knowing some people I've never met and never heard of's names will somehow make this more legitimate and less bs. The only thing that will make a difference is if stuff actually comes out this time.

[AndyToe]

crepe, on 14 April 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

I might get killed for this, but am I the only one who doesnt care about the metro dvd? I'd rather have songs we never heard of from the MCIS sessions.

it's understandable
but the metro dvd is a tangible item that can be released on DVDs and we know it'll be good quality because...
well.. that was the initial plan before someone got all pissy

unreleased MCIS tracks? Easy second place

This post has been edited by AndyToe: 14 April 2012 - 09:46 AM

[Whicker]

I would suggest starting off with online releases, no physical products till we know you are serious.

No stupid 192kbps mp3s, if people want mp3s they can make their own from the cd quality .wav files. Don't make us suffer because the deaf people are content with shitty mp3s...

I kinda agree on knowing who the people involved are, I know some don't want to get harassed but trust is a hard thing to come by on this forum and knowing who we are dealing with would help a lot with that.

Steady schedule and release dates, none of the TBK "soon" bullshit, no more then a month between releases.

for my recommendation, I think id be more interested in unreleased documentary's, in-studio footage, studio quality B-sides (MCIS!!). Maybe some video from important shows.

cleric, on 14 April 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

edit - i now see that you want mayfair on board - someone who's been complaining about the band here on their website since 2007 at the latest. not interested in your project anymore. i never expected such idiocy. thanks for wasting my time.

As much as you may hate him you cant deny that he knows his stuff... To be honest id rather have people who are competent then people who simply love the new material.

This post has been edited by Whicker: 14 April 2012 - 09:59 AM

[crookedsparrow]

I'd like to see vinyl releases that come with download cards. Maybe a database with soundboards of all pre 2000 live shows that fans can search through and purchase what they'd like. Maybe make especially popular shows available for a physical release. I'd also like to eventually see a replica LP/EP release of the Machina II album.

[ShamanO]

Whicker, on 14 April 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

As much as you may hate him you cant deny that he knows his stuff... To be honest id rather have people who are competent then people who simply love the new material.

pretty sure the people involved are the ones who are competent and not just those who love the new material.

[Whicker]

ShamanO, on 14 April 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

pretty sure the people involved are the ones who are competent and not just those who love the new material.

I Hope so :)/>

I really want this to work, a band has never really done this, if it does works it will be epic. For it to work I do agree we need the community support and interest and POSITIVITY, as hard as that may be.

[TheLucky13]

cleric, on 14 April 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

edit - i now see that you want mayfair on board - someone who's been complaining about the band here on their website since 2007 at the latest. not interested in your project anymore. i never expected such idiocy. thanks for wasting my time.

Again, earlier the team stated, "We hope that all fans who wish to support the release of material will get involved in the project and have their say."
It's not that we just want mayfair on board - it's anyone who can contribute to material getting released. People want us to be inclusive - we think it would be a grave error to exclude knowledgeable fans.

[Deleted User Account]

You guys are persistant. Fine. I am one of the Lucky 13. Billy loves my posting style and often sends congratulatory "LOL"s when I land a good joke or burn. When it came time to spearhead this project, I was a natural choice. I hope everyone enjoys the inaugural release which I am personally prepping in high qual. 128 mp3.

I will soon be appointing cleric as my lieutenant.

Lucky 13, I think this project would have benefited from its announcement coinciding with a release. That way everyone knows the seriousness of the project (no diss, but as others have said, similar projects have burned before they've had a chance). There will be no fan wide consensus.

[ShamanO]

you just wanted to announce you are one of the lucky13 bro. you got yourself a smug smile going on too right now. I dont need to see to know this. congrats articulateOne

ArticulateEric, on 14 April 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

Lucky 13, I think this project would have benefited from its announcement coinciding with a release. That way everyone knows the seriousness of the project (no diss, but as others have said, similar projects have burned before they've had a chance). There will be no fan wide consensus.

well if you are a part of it then why did you not communicate that BEFORE the announcement to get one out alongside the announcement?
wtf!

[TheLucky13]

ShamanO, on 14 April 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

this seems messy thinking right now.

I would like to see the items for release be broken down into eras and then sections like dvd/video, live bootlegs, studio, demos
then make a list of what items we could vote on per section. like starting with highest fan demands 1st. (I'm aware the metro dvd is highest, but I don't think that should be the 1st thing released)

this way there are a few things to be worked on and releasing things can come out with a steady continuous flow and not waiting for many months in between releases. each month could be a release of something. I dont think having a shit ton of stuff to release all at once is wise as it can become too clusterfucked, but I could be wrong. But if it were to be done in a TIMELY manner like a specific date each month for the release, that way it is ready to go and people won't complain about 2 months have passed and nothing. There needs to be some priority about getting things done on time and out to the fans if it were to be done like that. I'm sure if those that are involved can get this done and collaborate enough together to ensure this happens.

for example: every 2nd Monday of the month a new release comes out. This way there is a deadline to get these released on time. (use a specific monthly date if you want this is just an example)
however as these items are released they will always be available in the released sections (broken down by eras and content) unless the release is specified for "limited time only" and to see news of what is coming out next maybe? offer a mini preview somehow?

Definitely great suggestions - thank you. We are aiming to be consistent and timely throughout. Realistically, we are only half of the process as the actual manufacturing of the product or even the digital distribution would go on to a whole other team. Nevertheless, if we can figure out the product to release, the format and the price together as a community, then at least that is more than what has been going on over the past few years in terms of archival releases.

brandnewfan, on 14 April 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

Wow, there's a lot of negativity...

I believe the problem lies with the fact that this archive project has been simply rumored about for years and years, with only very little action (at least action that is not behind the scenes) that fans just have a hard time believing that it's going to happen at all. So how about the Lucky 13/SPRC people warm us up with some initial & quick release...something that will be released in the next few months (looong before the end of the year)...to let us know this is serious, that it's happening? Not just another demo ready for download, and not something "special" included in the upcoming reissues, but rather a genuine CD or DVD of something that will make us all truly cream our pants and help to prove that this project is running at full steam ahead. I think that would help to soothe some of our weary minds. After all, we can plan things out, discuss price models, our various wish lists, etc, but if there's no proof to back it all up *to begin with* then it's going to be met with the "we've heard it all before" attitude from the fans.

That's understandable, and as fans too - we want a release as soon as possible! Billy wants releases to come out through this model, so we have to show that we can make it work - and for the long run. We should be able to recommend a first release quite soon and then start to discuss the format(s) and price(s).

If there are questions that you would like us to relay to Billy - by all means let us know through here, email or facebook.

[RottingApples]

TheLucky13, on 14 April 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

That's understandable, and as fans too - we want a release as soon as possible! Billy wants releases to come out through this model, so we have to show that we can make it work - and for the long run. We should be able to recommend a first release quite soon and then start to discuss the format(s) and price(s).

Out of curiosity sirs/ madams: Is there any item(s) in particular that you have seen repeatedly brought up on here/ facebook/ elsewhere that to you seem like good candidates for a first release?

[TheLucky13]

ShamanO, on 14 April 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

:(/> people's negativity is scaring me already since Billy has pulled the plug before over the bitching and complaining and we haven't even gotten the interview yet

That's why Billy wants us to do all this intermediary work. Also, he doesn't really have the time to do it himself. He does however make himself available to any questions or concerns about the project. Hence the 1+ hour interview that is coming out on Monday. We are really doing everything that we can to make this project work.

[whywontyoulisten]

crepe, on 14 April 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

I might get killed for this, but am I the only one who doesnt care about the metro dvd?

I'm not bothered either way. It would be a nice thing to have, but it wasn't the final show with the classic line-up, and now it's not even the final show anymore. It seems to have taken on a mystical quality, and has become the Smashing Pumpkins fans' want-list equivalent of going to a show and yelling for the "Rat In A Cage" song.

I probably sound like a stuck record, but I'd much rather see something like Detroit '99 (a.k.a. "Welcome Back Jimmy") released, and I can't really see that happening as well as the Metro DVD; they're both Machina-era after all.

[TheLucky13]

RottingApples, on 14 April 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

Out of curiosity sirs/ madams: Is there any item(s) in particular that you have seen repeatedly brought up on here/ facebook/ elsewhere that to you seem like good candidates for a first release?

We should be able to get back to you on that in a week or so. We are collecting the data right now. We also have to determine if the first release should be physical or digital. A digital product would come out a lot sooner.

ArticulateEric, on 14 April 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

Lucky 13, I think this project would have benefited from its announcement coinciding with a release. That way everyone knows the seriousness of the project (no diss, but as others have said, similar projects have burned before they've had a chance). There will be no fan wide consensus.

Indeed, that would have been nice, but as you know - the dynamics of the original SPRC changed quite a bit when Kerry left. We will ask Billy if there are currently any songs that are ready for release. I do not think that we will necessarily need 100% consensus, but enough to break-even and fund a project.

[RottingApples]

TheLucky13, on 14 April 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

We should be able to get back to you on that in a week or so. We are collecting the data right now. We also have to determine if the first release should be physical or digital. A digital product would come out a lot sooner.

:thumbsup:/> I look forward to whatever you come up with.

[breathesgelatin]

TheLucky13, on 14 April 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

Indeed, that would have been nice, but as you know - the dynamics of the original SPRC changed quite a bit when Kerry left. We will ask Billy if there are currently any songs that are ready for release. I do not think that we will necessarily need 100% consensus, but enough to break-even and fund a project.

Kerry "left"?? Like he just walked away. Riiiiight.

Basically when Kerry and Billy had their break, SPRC stopped. Kerry was running the whole shimbang, and the project just stopped and now they're trying to figure out what to do.

I bet most of the work of the Lucky 13 would have been done by Kerry if things had happened differently.

[whywontyoulisten]

To be honest, I'd prefer digital, as it's much more convenient.

However, the purchased product would have to be of the highest possible quality, i.e. Flacs or Wavs for audio. We are happy to pay for the best; if we want to convert it to another more manageable format for iPod etc. use, then there are a million free programs that do it. Or you could allow the purchaser to choose formats at the ordering stage...it's easy enough to arrange...just give us the option!

[TheLucky13]

breathesgelatin, on 14 April 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

Kerry "left"?? Like he just walked away. Riiiiight.

Basically when Kerry and Billy had their break, SPRC stopped. Kerry was running the whole shimbang, and the project just stopped and now they're trying to figure out what to do.

I bet most of the work of the Lucky 13 would have been done by Kerry if things had happened differently.

Yes, Kerry left the SPRC project. Under what circumstances - we have no idea. None of us in the team is involved with what happened between Kerry and Billy. However, we are here to continue the project.

[Martine Castonguay]

GOOD LUCK TheLucky13! The success of it all depends of us all and all the glory (pleasure) will be also for us to share. :happy:/>

:thumbsup:/>

[Drevpile]

Firstly, I honestly really appreciate the fact that you've taken the time to address my concerns. However,

TheLucky13, on 13 April 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

b) In the interview with Billy that will be released on Monday, he mentions making the list available to the public. However, this will only happen if WE (as fans) can get past this initial stage and setup a communal project that works.

TheLucky13, on 13 April 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

6. Let us know what we are being vague about and we will be sure to clarify

See above, this is what I'm talking about; you are saying "this initial stage and set up" has to work. What do you hope to achieve with this stage. More pertinently - what exactly is this stage? Scoping for interest? Here's your answer (how can this not be a given);
Everyone is interested.
But what would get us really interested, is an actual THING. As most of us have said, ad-infinitum for THE PAST UMPTEEN YEARS, it doesn't make sense to start any meaningful discussions about 'what might, or might not exist or be possible', again. If this stage is; "say what you want from what you think might exist"; then implicitly state this in a memo or manefesto of some sort - along with listing all 'the things that exist but are unreleased that everyone knows about'; if you don't you will get something link this:

Dear The Lucky 13, please aggregate my desire (seriously), apparently you are somehow doing this(!?!): SO; I want every second of the Machina Era from moment JC had lunch with Billy to the Metro. I want the Arising Tour and every other leg of each your subsequent to that, proshot dvds (and soundboards) naturally. I want every second of rehearsal material, every version of every song, video, audio, dvd, blue ray, flac, mps, tape, betamax - I want it released via some sort of kickstarter/COD Elite type subscription model/digital/physical box set/free to play, but some of it I don't care about it being in a fancy package (some of it I might) as long as I have all of this with the drums isolated ok. OK?

So, like other posters across the internet - if you don't now deliver this - you have now started this thing on the backfoot, as you can't help but to disappoint people now.

TheLucky13, on 14 April 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

... Let's say soundboard recordings - is there a demand for that in vinyl? There is the option of mixed packages where 200 people can order a boxset to make a release break-even and then subsequent digital releases can be sold at a lesser price.... It's more of us coming up with a pricing system where all types of fans can have access to the material and where the release of a product can at least break-even...If you want more of how SPRC has been since December 2011 - then keep putting this initiative down.

LET'S NOT. It's not this absolutely amazing idea that anyone has issue with, it's the way it's being approached. Why are you doing it in the same way again? You're starting to talk about models for something THAT DOESN'T EXIST. How can this be any clearer? - The exact same thing is going to happen as last time; Everyone gets excited - starts talking about what they want - and then, as above
SPRC: "ok lets say... blah blah blah, some made up things, blah blah, ... blah blah... some numbers and some stuff... blah blah subscription this but not that... blah...".
A handful of fans " Well FUCK YOU, this is nonsense; talking about about making us shell out for stuff that isn't even on my own personal magic list".
SPRC "Project is over, if people don't hand over the cash before we've told them what they're paying for, END"

I'm not being negative, I'm just pointing out the obvious alongside people wiser and less cynical than I... It's painful to see the same mistakes being repeated.

[RottingApples]

breathesgelatin, on 14 April 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

Kerry "left"?? Like he just walked away. Riiiiight.

Basically when Kerry and Billy had their break, SPRC stopped. Kerry was running the whole shimbang, and the project just stopped and now they're trying to figure out what to do.

I bet most of the work of the Lucky 13 would have been done by Kerry if things had happened differently.

You're probably right, but what and why does it matter?

I'm at a loss of understanding why so many fans are so hung up on the people who are involved. Who cares? Nobody seemed to like most of the work Kerry was doing, so why not be grateful that he's not involved anymore rather than spouting a pithy attitude about something that really has no relevance. The group will prove themselves if/when something comes out. Until then, we wait and see if something actually gets delivered this time. No one will care who's behind the scenes anymore as soon as releases start coming out.

[Drevpile]

Lunatic, on 14 April 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

How about we reserve our assumptions until we get the full info with this interview?

That sounds like a good idea. Please take note of this The Lucky 13 before you mention any more vague 'possibilities'.

TheLucky13, on 14 April 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

We should be able to get back to you on that in a week or so. We are collecting the data right now.

Please, in the spirit of transparency - explain how you are going to collate and analyse this.

[whywontyoulisten]

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/530961_425470910801827_421964824485769_1991058_1385009210_n.jpg

That's a great logo; I always liked the Machina font. How about a t-shirt to go with the project? :coy:/>

[ShamanO]

only if it's available to the lucky13 first, you know so they can show off in public

[Drevpile]

zzzzzzzzzzzzing

[breathesgelatin]

RottingApples, on 14 April 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

You're probably right, but what and why does it matter?

I'm at a loss of understanding why so many fans are so hung up on the people who are involved. Who cares? Nobody seemed to like most of the work Kerry was doing, so why not be grateful that he's not involved anymore rather than spouting a pithy attitude about something that really has no relevance. The group will prove themselves if/when something comes out. Until then, we wait and see if something actually gets delivered this time. No one will care who's behind the scenes anymore as soon as releases start coming out.

I'm actually not sure I totally care who is involved. It's pretty obvious that Monte is involved. I'd guess orchidaii/SPpictures is involved too - in fact the diction of the oboard poster Lucky13 sounds like her. I have my doubts about how well Monte knows the tour history/release history. He knows a lot, to be sure, and I'm sure he can do an adequate job, but he doesn't have the comprehensive knowledge that some others have. Fine.

The point is not that I care SO much who specifically is involved (I care a little who is involved, I want them to have enough knowledge of the history to do a good job, and I want them to be intelligent and have enough social skills to carry out the other aspects of the job competently). The main point is that I can see no reason for the anonymity and it seems kind of stupid.

Like Drevpile, I truly don't get the point of discussing this stuff when we have no idea what is in the archives. It also seems to me that there are certain things in the archives that are off-limits (to name one example: we've already been told that post-2000 stuff is not a part of this initial discussion, and the vast amount of discarded material from 2000-present is actually of far more interest to me that the pre-2000 stuff).

[Mayfair]

cleric, on 14 April 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

edit - i now see that you want mayfair on board - someone who's been complaining about the band here on their website since 2007 at the latest. not interested in your project anymore. i never expected such idiocy. thanks for wasting my time.

http://forums.netphoria.org/wwwboard/icons/icon10.gif

Whicker, on 14 April 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

As much as you may hate him you cant deny that he knows his stuff... To be honest id rather have people who are competent then people who simply love the new material.

nah, he would deny it.

[Drevpile]

lol

Mayfair, on 14 April 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

http://forums.netphoria.org/wwwboard/icons/icon10.gif

:cheers:/>

This post has been edited by Drevpile: 14 April 2012 - 12:45 PM

[Mayfair]

i miss you dude, how are you? im rarely here anymore.

[Martine Castonguay]

whywontyoulisten, on 14 April 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/530961_425470910801827_421964824485769_1991058_1385009210_n.jpg

That's a great logo; I always liked the Machina font. How about a t-shirt to go with the project? :coy:/>

A new life (layer) for Ghosts Children? All we can say it's really far in the past.

All we can hope, the new team having great energy and being fast.