[Drevpile]

CoolAsIceCream, on 30 April 2012 - 07:23 AM, said:

do you want a t-shirt with that?

:cry:/>

They should have added 'limited edition' backstage pass to free gift list. :|

This post has been edited by Drevpile: 30 April 2012 - 07:28 AM

[whywontyoulisten]

Basically Drevpile ticked the "FUCK YOU" box for every question.

However, it is a valid point about how much you spend on SP; I haven't bought anything for a very long time, and though I keep adding to my collection, it's all in the form of live shows from archive.org, or occasional surfacing rarities such as the Machina premaster.

Edit: and no I don't want crap bundled with it. Music/video is all I care about.

[MonteLDS]

Drevpile, on 30 April 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

Most people, I would imagine, DO NOT care whether a hypothetical product comes in a fucking plastic case or a cardboard case. It might matter a little bit more to them though, if they knew what [it] was and how much [it] might cost though...

I say this as myself and not speaking for the Lucky 13 Team.

Drevpile maybe you're a passive consumer and that's fine. lots of people are. But we are trying to touch base with the engaged consumer.

And if the L13 was to post "this is what is coming out what would you price it at!?" That would be too much wear and tear on everyone. Maybe you have the time to answer a survey about every release, but most people don't. So general questions were asked in the survey. It is obvious to me that people may be willing to pay more money for an "epic" show like the Dec 2nd 2000 Metro show than the 1993/11/23 - Roseland Ballroom; New York City show. So we aren't going to ask question like that.

And I try to stay pretty quiet about every little complaining comment you make about the L13 project. But complaining is not going to help. So if you want to get on board, then get on board! But if all you want to do is stand on the platform and pout about things that's your choice.

[Drevpile]

whywontyoulisten, on 30 April 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

Basically Drevpile ticked the "FUCK YOU" box for every question.

However, it is a valid point about how much you spend on SP; I haven't bought anything for a very long time, and though I keep adding to my collection, it's all in the form of live shows from archive.org, or occasional surfacing rarities such as the Machina premaster.

Edit: and no I don't want crap bundled with it. Music/video is all I care about.

Unfortunately, I couldn't.

So someone please answer me this, as the survey forced a vote for every question - what does say $212 for single flac mystery live show vs $20 for a double MP3 mystery live show package tell anyone about anything? Nothing. That's what. Look, say 95% of people actually complete this survey with figures they think might be realistic to them. When it comes down to the reality, the likelihood that the figure of $1000 they said to themselves in their mind that they'd pay for a vinyl copy of their dream release, decreases rapidly when they hear that actually the archive project won't be releasing that and they will be releasing a their least favourite show instead.

[whywontyoulisten]

If they've read any of the replies in the "requests" topics, then they'll know which shows a large number of people want.

[CoolAsIceCream]

do you mean those shows that everyone already has?

[Drevpile]

Monte, I am not just complaining in vague or purely negative terminology for no good reason. I think I've been quite clear in attempting to offer constructive comments and criticism. My thoughts are clearly echoed and shared shared by a large number of 'engaged consumers' here... so you might want to re-phrase referring to fans who make comments which highlight potential problems of the project as "pouting".

I'm sorry I ain't going to ride the happy to train when you're talking about cardboard boxes, t-shirts and prices before you talk about content. Simple.

[MonteLDS]

Drevpile, on 30 April 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

Monte, I am not just complaining in vague or purely negative terminology for no good reason. I think I've been quite clear in attempting to offer constructive comments and criticism. My thoughts are clearly echoed and shared shared by a large number of 'engaged consumers' here... so you might want to re-phrase referring to fans who make comments which highlight potential problems of the project as "pouting".

I'm sorry I ain't going to ride the happy to train when you're talking about cardboard boxes, t-shirts and prices before you talk about content. Simple.

This survey was to get real general information. If we see that we need more specific results we will cross that bridge when we get there.
Also let me be clear, the o-board is NOT a big enough sample.

[The Elliott]

Drevpile, on 30 April 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

Monte, I am not just complaining in vague or purely negative terminology for no good reason. I think I've been quite clear in attempting to offer constructive comments and criticism. My thoughts are clearly echoed and shared shared by a large number of 'engaged consumers' here... so you might want to re-phrase referring to fans who make comments which highlight potential problems of the project as "pouting".

I'm sorry I ain't going to ride the happy to train when you're talking about cardboard boxes, t-shirts and prices before you talk about content. Simple.

lol, take a look at this guy

[Drevpile]

MonteLDS, on 30 April 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

This survey was to get real general information.

Great. What are you doing with said 'real general' information then? I'm not asking you the world. Just a simple explanation. It's interesting...

MonteLDS, on 30 April 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

Also let me be clear, the o-board is NOT a big enough sample.

I don't think may people here are stupid enough to think that the SP message board community, even as a whole, is big enough to support this project alone. However, we would still like to think that our opinions, as fans, are all rather valuable. I was just pointing out that I am not alone in my opinions. So please, as the leader of the team - don't start saying these fan's opinions are 'pouts' just because you don't like them.

So - good luck with polling facebook; I'm sure every single one of the 2 million fans are truly 'engaged' consumers and would be equally thrilled to tell you all about their preference between a cardboard and plastic box for a made up product.

[standing]

the survey was an alright step to take, but I noticed one large problem with it: it didn't account for frequency of release. basically: you were asking, what would you pay for a live show mp3. I put my answer. however, there is something that would GREATLY effect my answer in reality: how often are you gonna be charging me that? for instancce, if we are only gonna end up getting 2 really awesome shows a year, my price goes up. if yall are gonna get on the ball and start cranking out a new show every 2 weeks, my price goes down; but you would still get a lot of my money because id be collecting each and every release. same thing for studio releases: are we gonna get a solid release of a ton (if not all) of an era's unreleased songs? price goes up. or are we gonna get a release every month that has 2 new songs and a bunch of rehearsal filler? price goes down. the first step to alleviate this is: another survey needs to go up that asks how often people want to buy different release t ypes. before that, you should talk to billy and find out just how often its possible to release something. find out how long it takes to clean up concerts and master them and whatever, and manufacture them. then once you know the speed that is possible, do the survey for frequency of different releases, and have options like: every week, every month, every year.

another survey problem: how much do you spend per year on sp releases? how many sp releases come out each year? horrible question. I buy everything that comes out, but that's only like 20 bucks or less. how much WOULD I spend? hundreds, if the releases are quality, and the material is not just rehearsal version filler. give us new songs, and clean up and master the unreleased songs that are bootlegged outthere.

[chadbrochillington]

MonteLDS, on 30 April 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

This survey was to get real general information. If we see that we need more specific results we will cross that bridge when we get there.
Also let me be clear, the o-board is NOT a big enough sample.

My friend... the fact is, nearly all that "general information" can be found by just looking to common sense and 'the going rate' for these kinds of things. I'll help you out-

- People will pay between 10 and 17 bucks for a CD. Go lower than that and you've got more happy customers, go higher than that and you're generally fucked.
- Nobody gives a squirt of piss about the difference between a digipak and a jewel case.
- People will always prefer a nicer package to a shitty cardboard sleeve, given the choice.
- Nobody is going to pay a higher price for FLAC as opposed to 320kbps mp3; digital format is digital format. Look to bandcamp and similar services. Digital format is sold, with the option for FLAC available for those that prefer it, but it's all the same price.
- Vinyl is a niche market, obviously you can charge more; but put out a mid-quality bootleg of some random show on vinyl and prepare for nobody to want it out outside of a handful of basement trolls.
- Something cool like a compilation of unreleased songs or studio outtakes makes more sense on vinyl and you'd have infinitely more luck with that.
- Asking people how much they spend per year on Pumpkins releases is absurd, obviously it depends on what the pumpkins release in any given year.
- T-Shirts and posters are completely moot because the level to which they would sweeten the pot depends on the quality and specifics of said T-shirts or posters.
- Lastly, the primary reason this survey is going to give you sweet fuck all to work with, is that people cannot accurately gauge what value they put on a specific product because there IS no specific product in question. You've seemingly fallen into the same trap that doomed everything last time this kind of thing got bandied about... asking about money for some hypothetical thing that doesn't exist and is only spoken about in vague terms.
- I'd advise getting someone with some actual business savvy to do your surveys, moving forward.

I'm sure other people have made similar points, but there's my 2 cents thrown into the hat.

[ShamanO]

another good question would be...

how many releases would you like to see come out per year? (not including which types) just a general question

[WayneArnold]

About time Drevpile got a second account here.

[Deleted User Account]

Why don't Billy and co just try a new release. They can accomodate for what works and doesn't after giving it a shot. I agree it's too hypothetical right now.

[Joe180]

Drevpile, on 30 April 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

Great. What are you doing with said 'real general' information then? I'm not asking you the world. Just a simple explanation. It's interesting...


I don't think may people here are stupid enough to think that the SP message board community, even as a whole, is big enough to support this project alone. However, we would still like to think that our opinions, as fans, are all rather valuable. I was just pointing out that I am not alone in my opinions. So please, as the leader of the team - don't start saying these fan's opinions are 'pouts' just because you don't like them.

So - good luck with polling facebook; I'm sure every single one of the 2 million fans are truly 'engaged' consumers and would be equally thrilled to tell you all about their preference between a cardboard and plastic box for a made up product.

Holy shit dude, do ever stop bitching? Half of this thread is complaints from you and how you would be doing things. Well guess what - you're not in change of this and you don't have all the info. I'm sure the Lucky 13 are working hard at this and there's no doubt that they have a massive amount of material to sort through and tons of decisions to make. What is stoping you from putting in some constructive feedback and then waiting for an update?

I'm sorry to the rest of you for such a rant but someone had to say it. This is why I lurk - some of you people are so spoiled and entitled. It just really frustrates me. I don't know how monte deals with you guys. He does a lot for the the community because he's passionate about it and most of the time, you guys just fuck with him. Just please be grateful that this project is happening and that new, motivated people are behind it. I know there are a lot of cool people here too - hopefully Drevpile and the like can learn from you.

As far as my input, I sent my ideas and feedback to L13 directly through facebook.

I don't mean to start a flame war or anything, so I won't be posting here again.

[Drevpile]

WayneArnold, on 30 April 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

About time Drevpile got a second account here.

I won't ever need a second, third or 30th or 50th account for the archive project; Most everybody is and will always be calling out for the same basic information...

Joe180, on 30 April 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Holy shit dude, do ever stop bitching?

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lf89wxB3ja1qe0eclo1_r34_500.gif

If you call asking for clarity bitching. Then, no, no I will not stop. Someone, obviously not you Joe, please explain to me why it is such an affront to the project [when told that our input is essential] to ask how our input will be used? Are we entitled to this sacred knowledge, no, that would be silly wouldn't it? Wouldn't it...?!

I can not see one good reason to hold back on an exposition of the project and our involvement. I just don't. If you can tell me why you can't tell us, fine. But people wouldn't be sat 'bitching' about what the fucking poll is supposed to achieve if the team just told us would we? "This survey will provide the Lucky 13 team with information crucial to the next step in the release process" - doesn't mean ANYTHING. Imaginary prices for imaginary products - again - that is all we get. If the Lucky 13 just said what the "next step" is and how exactly this information supports it - that would be different; It is clear that I am not alone in failing to grasp how some of this information could be useful... I can not guess how asking me how much I have spent of SP in one year has ANYTHING to do with what I might spend on the archive project. That is why I am asking. If you can tell me how this poll marries the two, please, I implore you just tell me - I promise, all I will say is thank you.

I only ask these questions, because I care deeply about the project. I do apologise, if my passion spills into frustration. At least some members of the Lucky 13 sort of get where I'm coming from... sort of.

This post has been edited by Drevpile: 30 April 2012 - 01:36 PM

[TheLucky13]

Drevpile, on 30 April 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

Great. What are you doing with said 'real general' information then? I'm not asking you the world. Just a simple explanation. It's interesting...


I don't think may people here are stupid enough to think that the SP message board community, even as a whole, is big enough to support this project alone. However, we would still like to think that our opinions, as fans, are all rather valuable. I was just pointing out that I am not alone in my opinions. So please, as the leader of the team - don't start saying these fan's opinions are 'pouts' just because you don't like them.

So - good luck with polling facebook; I'm sure every single one of the 2 million fans are truly 'engaged' consumers and would be equally thrilled to tell you all about their preference between a cardboard and plastic box for a made up product.

As any other organization, we are going to consult the collected data to help make decisions on certain aspects of the project. All of the past and current data serves as a guide. As a team, we cannot assume that we know the fanbase 100% and what they are currently interested in purchasing. We are either confirming our initial conclusions or finding out new things. We do not think that differing opinions means pouting at all. We have noted and implemented a lot of the suggestions that have been sent to us through various sources.

standing, on 30 April 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

the survey was an alright step to take, but I noticed one large problem with it: it didn't account for frequency of release. basically: you were asking, what would you pay for a live show mp3. I put my answer. however, there is something that would GREATLY effect my answer in reality: how often are you gonna be charging me that? for instancce, if we are only gonna end up getting 2 really awesome shows a year, my price goes up. if yall are gonna get on the ball and start cranking out a new show every 2 weeks, my price goes down; but you would still get a lot of my money because id be collecting each and every release. same thing for studio releases: are we gonna get a solid release of a ton (if not all) of an era's unreleased songs? price goes up. or are we gonna get a release every month that has 2 new songs and a bunch of rehearsal filler? price goes down. the first step to alleviate this is: another survey needs to go up that asks how often people want to buy different release t ypes. before that, you should talk to billy and find out just how often its possible to release something. find out how long it takes to clean up concerts and master them and whatever, and manufacture them. then once you know the speed that is possible, do the survey for frequency of different releases, and have options like: every week, every month, every year.

another survey problem: how much do you spend per year on sp releases? how many sp releases come out each year? horrible question. I buy everything that comes out, but that's only like 20 bucks or less. how much WOULD I spend? hundreds, if the releases are quality, and the material is not just rehearsal version filler. give us new songs, and clean up and master the unreleased songs that are bootlegged outthere.

That is a good point and we will definitely consider the frequency of releases should there be another survey. There are many factors involved in the output of releases that are beyond our control (as The Lucky 13 team). The results of the survey will help to gauge what type of release fans are most interested in and that in a way determines the frequency of upcoming releases.

We do understand that the question can be problematic, but an average amount spent during years where there were 1-5 releases would suffice for us.

[Duhze]

Drevpile for president

[TheLucky13]

chadbrochillington, on 30 April 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

My friend... the fact is, nearly all that "general information" can be found by just looking to common sense and 'the going rate' for these kinds of things. I'll help you out-

- People will pay between 10 and 17 bucks for a CD. Go lower than that and you've got more happy customers, go higher than that and you're generally fucked.
- Nobody gives a squirt of piss about the difference between a digipak and a jewel case.
- People will always prefer a nicer package to a shitty cardboard sleeve, given the choice.
- Nobody is going to pay a higher price for FLAC as opposed to 320kbps mp3; digital format is digital format. Look to bandcamp and similar services. Digital format is sold, with the option for FLAC available for those that prefer it, but it's all the same price.
- Vinyl is a niche market, obviously you can charge more; but put out a mid-quality bootleg of some random show on vinyl and prepare for nobody to want it out outside of a handful of basement trolls.
- Something cool like a compilation of unreleased songs or studio outtakes makes more sense on vinyl and you'd have infinitely more luck with that.
- Asking people how much they spend per year on Pumpkins releases is absurd, obviously it depends on what the pumpkins release in any given year.
- T-Shirts and posters are completely moot because the level to which they would sweeten the pot depends on the quality and specifics of said T-shirts or posters.
- Lastly, the primary reason this survey is going to give you sweet fuck all to work with, is that people cannot accurately gauge what value they put on a specific product because there IS no specific product in question. You've seemingly fallen into the same trap that doomed everything last time this kind of thing got bandied about... asking about money for some hypothetical thing that doesn't exist and is only spoken about in vague terms.
- I'd advise getting someone with some actual business savvy to do your surveys, moving forward.

I'm sure other people have made similar points, but there's my 2 cents thrown into the hat.

Thank you for your input. Sometimes common sense is not enough...sometimes you have to show numbers.

[Drevpile]

TheLucky13, on 30 April 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

...

Someone on the team a politician? Not the answer I was looking for, but that's a given right!
However, thanks again for taking the time to respond and at least proffer some sort of answer.

This post has been edited by Drevpile: 30 April 2012 - 02:25 PM

[davidp2007]

Honestly I just guessed the amount I spend a year on SP based on the two deluxe reissues I got this year lol. Some years there was nothing really released. It also depends on what I can afford at the time.

[WayneArnold]

If I don't get a jewel case, there will be hell to pay.

[ChrisHill]

I won't echo everyone who has said that a survey that isn't specific is meaningless, but I will add that, once again, asking people what they would pay for something, even a specific item, is not meaningful data. Consumers are not rational creatures. Just because someone says they'd pay $15 for a CD doesn't mean that, once the time comes to put your money down, they will actually do so. Maybe the album art looks odd, maybe they just bought a new CD by another band and can't justify spending that much on music at one time, maybe the temptation to just wait and download the torrent is more powerful than the desire to support the band/project, maybe the door handle broke on their car and they have an unexpected $100 bill to pay this month, it could be *anything*. Just read about the famous Cola Wars "sip test" if you want evidence that consumer surveys don't work.

But all this said, I am going to shock everyone who has read most of my previous comments and say to cut the Lucky 13 and Monte some slack here. In the interview, Billy stressed that he doesn't want to be attacked by the fans/media for "ripping off his fans" and that he wants the fans who participate to feel like they're part of the process and getting a decent value. Hard data, even totally meaningless data, is something that Billy can point to and say "hey, the fans put together a survey and they said they'd be willing to pay this much, I'm not gouging them".

Chris Hill

[breathesgelatin]

I have to agree with Chris. The survey is a good step forward. It's easy to look at discussion on a messageboard, facebook page, etc, and think we have data to go on, but we really don't have a very wide sample. Even the Lucky 13 team, unless they're going to go through all those emails/facebook messages and try to score the data, may not be able to really get good data just from gathering anecdotal suggestions. While I wouldn't say that a survey is going to give them everything they need, it will help test certain assumptions.

Let's give a totally hypothetical example. Let's say in this thread there were a lot of people, maybe 5-10, that really wanted vinyl releases of live shows, were talking really loudly about it, demanding it, whatever. It begins to look like a lot of people want vinyl. Well, let's say in a survey of 1000 fans, 93% of them say they would pay $0 for a vinyl of a live show. That actually demonstrates that a working assumption was wrong.

I'm guessing this survey may be more helpful in demonstrating what people don't want, and testing general assumptions that the team may have made from the data they already have.

Yes, it would be stupid for them to say "Ok, the average amount suggested for a live show was X, so we're just going to price it at X." That would NOT be a good use of data. But I think there is definitely some data that can be gained from this survey that would be useful, and hopefully the team will use it constructively.

[ChrisHill]

breathesgelatin, on 30 April 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

I'm guessing this survey may be more helpful in demonstrating what people don't want, and testing general assumptions that the team may have made from the data they already have.

Yes. The best part of taking this survey was getting to mark that big fat zero next to instrumental demos and "best of" live compilations. Even if everyone else disagrees with me, at least I feel like my voice was heard in a quasi-meaningful way.

Chris Hill

[davidp2007]

ChrisHill, on 30 April 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

I won't echo everyone who has said that a survey that isn't specific is meaningless, but I will add that, once again, asking people what they would pay for something, even a specific item, is not meaningful data. Consumers are not rational creatures. Just because someone says they'd pay $15 for a CD doesn't mean that, once the time comes to put your money down, they will actually do so. Maybe the album art looks odd, maybe they just bought a new CD by another band and can't justify spending that much on music at one time, maybe the temptation to just wait and download the torrent is more powerful than the desire to support the band/project, maybe the door handle broke on their car and they have an unexpected $100 bill to pay this month, it could be *anything*. Just read about the famous Cola Wars "sip test" if you want evidence that consumer surveys don't work.

But all this said, I am going to shock everyone who has read most of my previous comments and say to cut the Lucky 13 and Monte some slack here. In the interview, Billy stressed that he doesn't want to be attacked by the fans/media for "ripping off his fans" and that he wants the fans who participate to feel like they're part of the process and getting a decent value. Hard data, even totally meaningless data, is something that Billy can point to and say "hey, the fans put together a survey and they said they'd be willing to pay this much, I'm not gouging them".

Chris Hill

Right. Everyone is different and there are a lot of factors that go into a decision on whether or not to buy. In theory, we may want to spend something, but when it comes to the actual release that we are faced with or unexpected hardship, or anything, there is not a 1:1 ratio because initial interest or thoughts on pricing in general to the end result. I think I added in the comments (and it sounds like others may have as well), that the pricing structure shouldn't be rigid. I think I was more polite than that. But in any case, we may decide that we can live without a release, especially if we already spent x amount of dollars on music that year or there is something that affects our budget.

Yeah, while it is vague for us to answer a survey like this. It sounds like this is the sort of thing that helps Billy, at least in some way.

ChrisHill, on 30 April 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

Yes. The best part of taking this survey was getting to mark that big fat zero next to instrumental demos and "best of" live compilations. Even if everyone else disagrees with me, at least I feel like my voice was heard in a quasi-meaningful way.

Chris Hill

That was like me with the live vinyl. I would be willing to have collectible stuff (along with a digital release of course) on vinyl, but I don't really see much point to live shows on vinyl. But others may feel differently. I think I still gave some weight to instrumental demos and best of stuff, but much less interest/weight than the rest of the material.

[Drevpile]

ChrisHill, on 30 April 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

The best part of taking this survey was getting to mark that big fat zero next to instrumental demos and "best of" live compilations.

Chris Hill

:yes:/> I will cry if it turns out this is what the fans 'actually' want.

Anyway, If you guys can all see some merit to doing this particular poll, well, I guess there must be something to it then.

I trust that the Lucky 13 between them, will link this poll data to the anecdotal data and previous stuff which they have been reviewing - in some sort of meaningful way. I can see how you could aggregate some useful information. Some of it though, I just can't see it, at all, and I can't let my primary point drop yet; that without real examples, its still largely just hot air.

I just want to say again to the Lucky 13 and fans who think I am just moaning, I do apologise if I have come across a little over zealous with some of my criticism of the project. However, I would like to again reassure you that A) It's not personal and B) I felt very heavily vested in this project the last time it imploded in on itself. Maybe some of you weren't around or as involved with it the first time, I don't know but let me explain my point of view. My frustration is that I see the same approaches being used, mistakes I like to call then, that ultimately led to fans and Billy getting pissed off with one another and calling the whole thing off. When I see (from the limited knowledge we have of this reboot) those same mistakes being repeated verbatim, I can't in good conscious just sit back and say nothing - knowing what happened last time. I'm sorry if it appears overtly 'negative' but I would like to assure you that; it is born out of wanting, more than anything, to see this thing work.

I'm sure all sorts of cool stuff is going on behind the scenes and the master plan is rocking - it's just hard to see it from where I'm sitting, tis all. So yeah, sorry, if I upset you and what not.

I might not be ready to get on the happy train yet, but I am stood on the platform... (just give me a timetable and a destination and I'll buy a ticket...)

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lc738lDRh31qe0eclo1_r1_500.gif

This post has been edited by Drevpile: 01 May 2012 - 01:30 AM

[Chad Channing]

We already have all live shows. Release rarities/b sides/full versions of Pistachio Medley songs/etc.

[WayneArnold]

I actually said I wasn't interested at all in unreleased songs or alternate versions.

[Chad Channing]

Well then no one gives a shit about your opinion.

you can get pretty much every show online already, and half of them sound like shit anyway.

[WayneArnold]

Chad Channing, on 01 May 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

Well then no one gives a shit about your opinion.

you can get pretty much every show online already, and half of them sound like shit anyway.

But you can't get them on CD or USBs. I really want live instrumentals. Fingers crossed.

[Deleted User Account]

WayneArnold, on 01 May 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

But you can't get them on CD or USBs. I really want live instrumentals. Fingers crossed.

LOL.

[whywontyoulisten]

Chad Channing, on 01 May 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

you can get pretty much every show online already, and half of them sound like shit anyway.

They sound shit because they were recorded on a tape player wedged into the sweaty armpit of a moshpit-battered gig-goer and screamed over by his/her hysterical friends. Surely you can appreciate the difference between this and a soundboard recording?

[Chad Channing]

I would much much much rather have studio-recorded tracks that are as of yet unavailable. How many different live versions of the same songs do you really need?

Oh, Billy played 1979 one half-step higher up. COLLECTORS ITEM.

Or, the full studio versions of the Pistachio Medley songs, more home/studio demos, NEW thigns.

[ShamanO]

WayneArnold, on 01 May 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

I actually said I wasn't interested at all in unreleased songs or alternate versions.

:eyebrow:/> this makes me think all sorts of things.

also to Drev...I understand where you are coming from. It was a complete smack to the face as a fan to have the archives project canceled last time. I'm trying my best to stay positive about it this time. I'm glad you are still on the platform waiting for destination unknown ;)/>

Chad Channing, on 01 May 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

I would much much much rather have studio-recorded tracks that are as of yet unavailable. How many different live versions of the same songs do you really need?

Oh, Billy played 1979 one half-step higher up. COLLECTORS ITEM.

Or, the full studio versions of the Pistachio Medley songs, more home/studio demos, NEW thigns.

live songs are cool, but they are also for the most part accessible online, now a dvd would be better than a live vinyl, however a live vinyl hasn't been officially released before, so finding the best show and slapping it on vinyl might be the best thing to do, but don't keep on doing that...it should be a one off type of item. I don't want to keep seeing live albums. The best of the best released and sold. If there is a dvd that happens to be available of that live show that that also can be put out as a package deal.

I'm not fully aware of how much is in the archive that are new songs/unreleased but I am in favor of those seeing the light of day.

[whywontyoulisten]

Chad Channing, on 01 May 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

I would much much much rather have studio-recorded tracks that are as of yet unavailable. How many different live versions of the same songs do you really need?

Quite a few when you consider how many arrangements the songs have had over the years. Not only can they be vastly different to their album versions, they vary greatly from concert to concert, tour to tour.

A good example is "To Sheila". You can hardly call these three renditions "the same":







I believe it had yet another reinvention on the tours post-reunion.

Edit: ...and before you say "it's all online": yes I know, but it's in shitty pixellated video from an old VHS tape, with sub-128kbps mp3 sound quality. Oh for HD/Blu-ray quality!

[Simon]

Just gonna throw this in there in favour of "alternate versions of songs".
A) The live version of Stumbleine is blissful.
B) If you take a look at the poll forum, one of the most popular track from the reissues is the new version of "Siamese Dream" (the song). It's hardly the same song as what had been released ages ago. The band has always talked about finding multiple expressions of the same song before going for a definitive album version, which makes me wonder how much material is out there - not just alternate live versions, but alternate STUDIO versions.

[ShamanO]

ahh feck, why'd you have to go and post 3 different Sheila's.

now I have to listen to them all

[Duhze]

Chad Channing, on 01 May 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

I would much much much rather have studio-recorded tracks that are as of yet unavailable. How many different live versions of the same songs do you really need?

Oh, Billy played 1979 one half-step higher up. COLLECTORS ITEM.

Or, the full studio versions of the Pistachio Medley songs, more home/studio demos, NEW thigns.

:thumbsup:/> You read my thoughts exactly. Well said.

[WayneArnold]

Chad Channing, on 01 May 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

I would much much much rather have studio-recorded tracks that are as of yet unavailable. How many different live versions of the same songs do you really need?

Oh, Billy played 1979 one half-step higher up. COLLECTORS ITEM.

Or, the full studio versions of the Pistachio Medley songs, more home/studio demos, NEW thigns.

We already have plenty of studio songs and demos. What are my shelves missing? Thumb drives with great live concerts. I think we can all agree on this.

[ShamanO]

why is there not a To Sheila from the Guggenheim museum video :(/>

[ChrisHill]

WayneArnold, on 01 May 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

We already have plenty of studio songs and demos. What are my shelves missing? Thumb drives with great live concerts. I think we can all agree on this.

Why would you put those thumb drives on a shelf? Personally I would hook them all on my keychain and carry them around with me like a janitor with a ring of keys :)/>

[The Elliott]

The very fact that the people on this board can't agree on the details of a release gives validity to the survey. And what about the quiet majority? Some people prefer not to post to the board or would like to but don't have time. The community needs to be consulted. Then if whatever we ask for doesn't sell, it's our fault and not the Lucky 13's or BC's.

Funny how some people are suggesting that you just release something as a test to see what happens. If you worked for me I would fire you. This is not an experiment, nor is it a charity--it needs to be financially viable to all parties and requires sufficient due diligence.