[KingBelteshazzar]

well, Teargarden's already been going on since 2009, no reason why it can't go on another three years...theoretically.

But I think the fans want to see it completed sooner than that, obviously.

[Bountiful_Wasteland]

I have this crazy hunch he might do something like a double album to close out TbK.

[ShamanO]

double album inside an album?

[ItsSoPringles]

PopcornSmiley, on 03 April 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

The more time passes, the more I like these TBK tracks.

yah the songs weren't the problem(well in astral planes case yah it was) it was the release method that ruined it

also anyone just consider the teargarden songs we got now just another album, i mean if we count the teargarden theme and cottenwood we have 12 songs, 12 is a solid number of songs for a album, and as most of us are saying teargarden is basically dead at this point so might as well count the ones we have as a album

[BitterRootOfSelf]

I consider what we have out now as part 1 of 4 for Teagarden. Oceania is part 2. It would be cool if each part represented the different tarot themes he mentioned a while back. Skeptic, mystic, lover, etc. I would be ok with another set of singles after Oceania and then end it on another album which includes gossamer as the last song. That would be epic

[ShamanO]

ShamanO, on 04 April 2012 - 08:36 AM, said:

double album inside an album?

oops let me rephrase this

double album within an album, so a triple album, quadruple album or double double album?

IF he were to finish TbK with Oceania inside it.

Also we shouldn't let Billy get away with not finishing TbK if he is trying to weasel out of it. Hold him to it!

[manuglass]

ItsSoPringles, on 04 April 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

yah the songs weren't the problem(well in astral planes case yah it was) it was the release method that ruined it

also anyone just consider the teargarden songs we got now just another album, i mean if we count the teargarden theme and cottenwood we have 12 songs, 12 is a solid number of songs for a album, and as most of us are saying teargarden is basically dead at this point so might as well count the ones we have as a album

Haha. We just can't let go of Gossamer... I'm still dreaming of a 5-track album with very long proggy tracks, including Gossamer, of course.

[frednirv632]

manuglass, on 04 April 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Haha. We just can't let go of Gossamer... I'm still dreaming of a 5-track album with very long proggy tracks, including Gossamer, of course.

He's mentioned in the past that the best way for SP to age gracefully would be to go in a proggier direction. I forget where he said this, but it gives me hope.

[themadcaplaughs]

Quote

yah the songs weren't the problem(well in astral planes case yah it was) it was the release method that ruined it

My thoughts exactly. The first EP of Teargarden was essentially released (more or less) a month at a time, and if you look back at the forum and major media outlets, all of those songs were well received, or at least got noticeable press. It was not until that huge gap between "Astral Planes" in April 2010 and "Freak" in July 2010 that the project died in the eyes of the public. Even the fact that "Freak" was a great single and one of the best songs Corgan has written in a long time was irrelevant...the few casual fans who'd bought in to the one song at a time deal were lost due to lack of interest.

[Simon Belmont]

THIS JUST IN.

Oceania will now be released under its new title, Blurricane.

[KingBelteshazzar]

Bountiful_Wasteland, on 04 April 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

I have this crazy hunch he might do something like a double album to close out TbK.

oh how i wish....roll it out, BC!!

and then a TAFH-esque box-set for all the TBK songs that didn't make the official double album :D/>

[kylekasino]

ItsSoPringles, on 04 April 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

also anyone just consider the teargarden songs we got now just another album, i mean if we count the teargarden theme and cottenwood we have 12 songs, 12 is a solid number of songs for a album, and as most of us are saying teargarden is basically dead at this point so might as well count the ones we have as a album

This is the best way of looking at it for sure. Makes for all kinds of fun tracklisting discussion too, placing Cottonwood being the hands down hardest decision.

I would also agree that those 12 songs make up part 1 as BitterRoot suggested, with Oceania being part 2. Whether or not we ever see 3 or 4, well that's another thing entirely, which will depend on a slew of other factors we can't even begin to comprehend yet and won't be able to for another year or two.

But it helps, at least for me, to place some book ends on what has basically been a scrambled set of songs the last few years.

[manuglass]

manuglass, on 04 April 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Haha. We just can't let go of Gossamer... I'm still dreaming of a 5-track album with very long proggy tracks, including Gossamer, of course.

But I think Billy's concept of progrock is fairly light. He said TbK was going to be prog. Jimmy said the same thing about Skysaw and I don't think you can say any of those are prog.

[nasalscarecrow]

themadcaplaughs, on 04 April 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

My thoughts exactly. The first EP of Teargarden was essentially released (more or less) a month at a time, and if you look back at the forum and major media outlets, all of those songs were well received, or at least got noticeable press. It was not until that huge gap between "Astral Planes" in April 2010 and "Freak" in July 2010 that the project died in the eyes of the public. Even the fact that "Freak" was a great single and one of the best songs Corgan has written in a long time was irrelevant...the few casual fans who'd bought in to the one song at a time deal were lost due to lack of interest.

That almost made me lose interest too. I didn't like Freak. In fact, A Stitch In Time was the only song up to that point that hadn't disappointed. Luckily I loved Tom Tom and The Fellowship, and the Oceania live tracks are good so I'm interested still. High hopes I suppose.

[AlienCloak]

I still don't get how Lightning Strikes and Owata fit into all this. They're not part of any EP... they're just floating around in there

[ShamanO]

well they can't be B-sides..maybe they are C-sides?

[AndyToe]

AlienCloak, on 05 April 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

I still don't get how Lightning Strikes and Owata fit into all this. They're not part of any EP... they're just floating around in there

to be honest. with the quality of those two songs, it's not a bad thing.

This post has been edited by AndyToe: 05 April 2012 - 12:54 PM

[RottingApples]

AlienCloak, on 05 April 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

I still don't get how Lightning Strikes and Owata fit into all this. They're not part of any EP... they're just floating around in there

They're songs that you can listen to. Having them on some physical medium doesn't make them any more or less "legitimate".

[themadcaplaughs]

Quote

I still don't get how Lightning Strikes and Owata fit into all this. They're not part of any EP... they're just floating around in there

I think Billy mentioned after one of the shows in 2010 that they were recorded shortly after the most current lineup got together. My guess was they were put in the can before the Oceania idea had come about.

[AlienCloak]

RottingApples, on 05 April 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

Having them on some physical medium doesn't make them any more or less "legitimate".

Yes, yes it does.

[nasalscarecrow]

My Teargarden sorting is gonna look a mess after Oceania.

[Arachnea]

Billy briefly talks about Oceania and a fun little Jimmy story. He reiterates that he thinks this is the best album he has written in 15 years and how happy he is with the lineup.

[Sophie]

Was Billy planning to go to Siberia after the interview ? :D/>

[chrisothoulos]

Did he say Collective Soul is the worst band ever?

[ShamanO]

wanna add part 2 on here?

[Beat Poet]

I guess with Teargarden he just didn't realise how long the whole thing would take. Maybe if, as the songs were released, there was a genuine development with the sound (say like a microcosm of way a band's sound changes over the career) it would have been worth sticking to. If you listen to the EPs back to back, it could well just be an album. It's hard to hear the "development", which I believe was one of the foundations of the Teargarden thing.

[Dusty]

I kind of assume that Owata and Lightning Strikes will be paired with two other songs after Oceania. Billy has said he will "finish" Teargarden, and I think he has some interest in returning to the EP format in at least some capacity.
I also have to disagree about not hearing a development in the Teargarden sound. I find that if I listen to the songs end to end, I can definitely hear a trasnition from what was a much more "psychedelic" asthetic in EP 1 (just consider to studio cut of Song For A Son or Astral Planes, which is a mantra. Stitch sounds like Donovan and Widow is quite jam-y) to a more "pop-alternative" sound in EP 2 (Muse esque tropes in Fellowship, the introduction of electronic elements into Tom Tom, and obviously Freak, which I think bridges the two EPs in terms of style). EP3 obviously has the added element of Ichabod the syth-wonder, and those songs sounded much more layered than the earlier Teargarden songs, which I find sparse/stark. I don't know how much that trend of change would have continued--and the change is not radical--but it seems to me that every time Billy went into the studio, he had a new idea in mind.

[astralweeks]

chrisothoulos, on 06 April 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

Did he say Collective Soul is the worst band ever?

It hasn't gotten the "pub" of Pavement/SP, but the Pumpkins also had a fued with Collective Soul during the 90's. Corgan said "Shine" was a Pumpkins rip-off. He acutally used to play the song side by side with "Drown" (i think it was Drown) during the Lollaplooza 94 tour and go off on how they ripped off his band. Collective Soul had a song "Smashing Young Man" about Corgan... there might have been a lawsuit at some point?

so yeah, that's the backstory as I know it

[chemicalbehavior]

astralweeks, on 07 April 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

It hasn't gotten the "pub" of Pavement/SP, but the Pumpkins also had a fued with Collective Soul during the 90's. Corgan said "Shine" was a Pumpkins rip-off. He acutally used to play the song side by side with "Drown" (i think it was Drown) during the Lollaplooza 94 tour and go off on how they ripped off his band. Collective Soul had a song "Smashing Young Man" about Corgan... there might have been a lawsuit at some point?

so yeah, that's the backstory as I know it

I actually just heard about this myself recently. I personally don't hear the similarities between "Drown" and "Shine" and even if they are similar I'm surprised at how vocal and angry Billy has been about that. Especially coming from a guy who's a Led Zeppelin fan and Led Zeppelin is notorious for ripping people off.

"Dazed and Confused" - Jake Holmes, 1967



"Dazed and Confused" - Led Zeppelin, 1969



Now that's a ripoff!

[astralweeks]

chemicalbehavior, on 07 April 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

I actually just heard about this myself recently. I personally don't hear the similarities between "Drown" and "Shine" and even if they are similar I'm surprised at how vocal and angry Billy has been about that. Especially coming from a guy who's a Led Zeppelin fan and Led Zeppelin is notorious for ripping people off.

"Dazed and Confused" - Jake Holmes, 1967



"Dazed and Confused" - Led Zeppelin, 1969



Now that's a ripoff!

Plus Corgan himself even admitted to ripping off MBV. "Shine" does sound like an early Pumpkins rip-off when I listen to it now, but all these bands rip off one another at some point. the opening riff to the Pumpkins biggest hit was strongly "influenced" by "What's Going On" by Husker Du...

I try giving Corgan the benefit of the doubt when possible, but I'm not sure why that CS song bothered him so much

[chemicalbehavior]

astralweeks, on 07 April 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

Plus Corgan himself even admitted to ripping off MBV.

That's a good point. Corgan did just recently admit that "Daydream" was a ripoff of MBV in the webisode he did for that song.

[Lunatic]

chemicalbehavior, on 07 April 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

I actually just heard about this myself recently. I personally don't hear the similarities between "Drown" and "Shine" and even if they are similar I'm surprised at how vocal and angry Billy has been about that. Especially coming from a guy who's a Led Zeppelin fan and Led Zeppelin is notorious for ripping people off.

"Dazed and Confused" - Jake Holmes, 1967


"Dazed and Confused" - Led Zeppelin, 1969


Now that's a ripoff!

Um, that's what music was before copyright laws.

[chemicalbehavior]

Lunatic, on 07 April 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

Um, that's what music was before copyright laws.

Um, copyright laws had been in existance long before the late 60s.

Is it too much for you to contribute to a thread instead of trolling? :rolleyes:/>

Geez.

[frosty]

did you guys hear what he said about robert smith? :shocked:/>

[RottingApples]

frosty, on 07 April 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

did you guys hear what he said about robert smith? :shocked:/>

No. What?

[frosty]

in that second video for baseball's opening day, he says the first time he met robert, robert said he wanted to make out with him. billy said he is only attracted to girls. robert said he is a girl & then he threw up on billy's shoes.

he also talked about jimmy hitting 6 cop cars when he hit a patch of ice going 80.

[_________]

chemicalbehavior, on 07 April 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Um, copyright laws had been in existance long before the late 60s.

Copyright has become incredibly inflated over the years, however.

Just look at the expansion of copyright terms:
http://i.imgur.com/crATj.png

[chemicalbehavior]

_________, on 07 April 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

Copyright has become incredibly inflated over the years, however.

Just look at the expansion of copyright terms:
http://i.imgur.com/crATj.png

You can thank Disney for that.

Anyways, we weren't talking legalese now were we? A ripoff is a ripoff no matter what year it was released, that was the point in my Jake Holmes/Led Zeppelin post.

[frednirv632]

Have you ever listened the blues???

http://www.smashingp...ndpost&p=664195
some of the discussion following the linked post might be good for you to read.

[chemicalbehavior]

frednirv632, on 08 April 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

Have you ever listened the blues???

http://www.smashingp...ndpost&p=664195
some of the discussion following the linked post might be good for you to read.

Yep. I was aware of all this back in high school. My uncle went on telling me about the "Taurus"/"Stairway to Heaven" similarities as well as a lot of the blues and folk influences that Led Zeppelin incorporated into their songs.

My point here (and staying on topic) is that it's a bit of an oxymoron for Billy to criticize Collective Soul for their alleged ripoff of one of his songs when one of his admitted favorite bands (he just spent $800 recently on an original mix Led Zeppelin LP) was notorious for taking from other artists without crediting them (at least not originally). As well as Billy even admitting to doing the same thing with MBV/"Daydream".

One important fact that a lot of people overlook is that a lot of those blues artists didn't actually write the songs with which they're traditionally credited for. Some of those songs, such as "Nobody's Fault But Mine" and "In My Time of Dying", were traditional gospel songs that were incorporated into the music that we now call the blues.

[misguided]

Quote

The Smashing Pumpkins have played parts of Shine during their 2010 tour.[6] Billy Corgan has expressed his hatred of the song and noted its similarities to the Smashing Pumpkins' song Drown.[6] Corgan lost a lawsuit in the mid-90s to Ed Roland after Roland was able to produce a demo tape featuring "Shine" that preceded the Pumpkins' release.

bam! I love both songs.

[lucciola]

frosty, on 07 April 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

in that second video for baseball's opening day, he says the first time he met robert, robert said he wanted to make out with him. billy said he is only attracted to girls. robert said he is a girl & then he threw up on billy's shoes.

he also talked about jimmy hitting 6 cop cars when he hit a patch of ice going 80.

:lol:/> robert smith is the most lovable man ever

chemicalbehavior, on 07 April 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

"Dazed and Confused" - Jake Holmes, 1967

"Dazed and Confused" - Led Zeppelin, 1969

Now that's a ripoff!

Pre-Zeppelin Yardbirds version is worse. Oh, well. Jake has his money now.

chemicalbehavior, on 08 April 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

One important fact that a lot of people overlook is that a lot of those blues artists didn't actually write the songs with which they're traditionally credited for. Some of those songs, such as "Nobody's Fault But Mine" and "In My Time of Dying", were traditional gospel songs that were incorporated into the music that we now call the blues.

:thumbsup:/>

chemicalbehavior, on 08 April 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

You can thank Disney for that.

Yes. Thoroughly evil corporation. I will not be spending my 45th birthday there.

[Chad Channing]

astralweeks, on 07 April 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

the opening riff to the Pumpkins biggest hit was strongly "influenced" by "What's Going On" by Husker Du...

YES YES YES I KNEW 1979 SOUNDED FAMILIAR

[Fernando]

Billy was angry @ Collective Soul because of credits and not exactly about the ripp off.