[cleric]

Mayfair, on 19 December 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

so if its not in this exact order:

you are gonna lose your fucking mind and scream "WHAT IS IT ALL FOR!?!?!?!? GAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!" and end your life?

sounds like something you'd say, to be fair.

[Mayfair]

cleric, on 19 December 2011 - 02:29 PM, said:

sounds like something you'd say, to be fair.

you were the inspiration when i made that post. :thumbsup:/>

[United States]

CoolAsIceCream, on 19 December 2011 - 04:41 AM, said:

and LOL @ everyone who thinks machina will be reissued in 2013.
are you absolutely unable to learn? are you the kind of creature who will walk into a wall, and then try the same move again until you pass out?

i'd personally be surprised if the machina reissue gets released before 2015.

I agree. MCIS & TAFH will take til late 2013 with all that material.
2014 adore, 2015 sometime for machina.

[LostSoul]

So you completely missed the part where Billy said he's under contractual agreement to get them out by 2013? You people forgetting he's working with EMI on these? :scatch:/>

[crepe]

PI - Record store day 2012
Mellon collie - around november 2012
TAFH - around november 2012
Adore - april/march 2013
Machina - around november 2013.

[Inertia]

crepe, on 22 December 2011 - 04:12 PM, said:

PI - Record store day 2012
Mellon collie - around november 2012
TAFH - around november 2012
Adore - april/march 2013
Machina - around november 2013.

Are these actual dates?

[RottingApples]

Inertia, on 22 December 2011 - 04:24 PM, said:

Are these actual dates?

:deadhorse:/> It's all Speculation.

[Inertia]

RottingApples, on 22 December 2011 - 04:42 PM, said:

:deadhorse:/> It's all Speculation.

Nevermind. :happy:/>

[brandnewfan]

Didn't he say they would reissue Zeitgeist, the solo stuff and Zwan? That'd all be by 2013 too, no?

[Fernando]

Billy has said PI is coming out in may, 2012

brandnewfan, on 23 December 2011 - 04:37 AM, said:

Didn't he say they would reissue Zeitgeist, the solo stuff and Zwan? That'd all be by 2013 too, no?

No, I think he has said he'll get the rights for Zwan and TFE in 2014.

Quote

those would see the light of day when the inevitable Zeitgeist re-issue comes out. i get full rights back to Zwan/Future Embrace/Zeit in about 4 years Zwan would be first up. 60+ unreleased songs.

From Billy.

[frednirv632]

when did he say may?

[Matteo]

ShamanO, on 16 December 2011 - 01:22 PM, said:

it's a forum and we post all sorts of things because well...WE CAN!

true, but still a lame and recycled excuse.

[Fernando]

frednirv632, on 23 December 2011 - 06:11 AM, said:

when did he say may?

It's April, actually

Quote

About four years back, you and [current guitarist] Jeff [Schroeder] played “Translucent” live for the first time ever. For the recently created SPRC, would you consider remastering and releasing once forgotten obscurities like that pre-Gish gem and others, like “There It Goes”?


Billy:Those two songs might just well end up on the extra-disc of our next official reissue release in April [2012] for [hit 1994 b-sides compilation] Pisces Iscariot.

http://blogcritics.o.../#ixzz1hNeHfkL2

[ShamanO]

Matteo, on 23 December 2011 - 07:57 AM, said:

true, but still a lame and recycled excuse.

I dont see you coming up with a reason

[almightyseancore]

i don't think zeitgeist will be a part of this, also i hope machina 2 will be reissued as a box set, the way the original lacquers were. 3x10" + 2x12".

[RottingApples]

almightyseancore, on 23 December 2011 - 05:29 PM, said:

i don't think zeitgeist will be a part of this, also i hope machina 2 will be reissued as a box set, the way the original lacquers were. 3x10" + 2x12".

The intention is to eventually get to Zeitgeist. It would just be sometime post 2014.

[Fernando]

almightyseancore, on 23 December 2011 - 05:29 PM, said:

i don't think zeitgeist will be a part of this,.

Why not?

Billy has said he wanted Zeitgeist was produced darker. Also, there were some b-sides that sounded like "the old pumpkins" for that album too. There are a lot of "live songs" for that tour too. So I think this album has a lot of material and potential, and surelly it'll be released again.

[RottingApples]

Fernando, on 24 December 2011 - 04:31 AM, said:

Why not?

Billy has said he wanted Zeitgeist was produced darker. Also, there were some b-sides that sounded like "the old pumpkins" for that album too. There are a lot of "live songs" for that tour too. So I think this album has a lot of material and potential, and surelly it'll be released again.

Indeed. 10th Anniversary perhaps...

[CoolAsIceCream]

if billy wanted zeitgeist to be produced darker, then why didn't he produce it darker? how silly!

[manuglass]

CoolAsIceCream, on 25 December 2011 - 05:56 AM, said:

if billy wanted zeitgeist to be produced darker, then why didn't he produce it darker? how silly!

I think he has commented on the production style and the song selection putting the blame to some extent on the record company. I don't know where I get this idea, though.

[Fernando]

manuglass, on 25 December 2011 - 10:12 AM, said:

I think he has commented on the production style and the song selection putting the blame to some extent on the record company. I don't know where I get this idea, though.

Here it is:

FROM Josh Wright do you regret anything about the zeitgeist album?

FROM BC: should have never released it on Warner Brothers, and the mix is too pop. the rough mixes are brutal heavy. should have gone that route. more true to the spirit of what we set out to make. not dark enough, but we were in a tough spot. Roy however is the best i have ever worked with. a true genius.

[Matteo]

ShamanO, on 23 December 2011 - 10:32 AM, said:

I dont see you coming up with a reason

i don't need to, because i'm not participating in this debate.

[snail33]

Mayfair, on 19 December 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

so if its not in this exact order:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/49/Machina_chart.jpg


you are gonna lose your fucking mind and scream "WHAT IS IT ALL FOR!?!?!?!? GAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!" and end your life?

um...no.

[manuglass]

Fernando, on 25 December 2011 - 03:26 PM, said:

Here it is:

FROM Josh Wright do you regret anything about the zeitgeist album?

FROM BC: should have never released it on Warner Brothers, and the mix is too pop. the rough mixes are brutal heavy. should have gone that route. more true to the spirit of what we set out to make. not dark enough, but we were in a tough spot. Roy however is the best i have ever worked with. a true genius.

thanks! I think we would all appreciate a significant difference in the mix of Zeitgeist.

[LostSoul]

Zeitgeist pisses me off more than any record he's done. Because in my eyes, it was the only one that ever failed to meet its potential. To me, Gish-Machina II were perfect. Zwan was decent, and though he could have picked better material, the records stands well as it is. Solo, it wasn't groundbreaking, but it was the most artistic thing he's done aside from Adore.

Zeitgeist had the potential. The songs were excellent, structurally (save for Come On Lets Go and the solo in Bring The Light). The drums were immense, the guitars foreboding. The lyrics could be better, but it enjoyed a few highlights. The heavier songs had a very "apocalyptic" aura to them, and the softer songs a very peaceful, yet forceful tone.

And yet, the production KILLED it. Then if that wasn't enough, Billy sounded like ass vocally. Thanks BC. I still think if the album held some tangible emotional value to it, then it would have been excellent. Not to mention, this "darker" rougher mix he is speaking of is intriguing. It would actually do the record some justice.

[Fernando]

LostSoul, on 27 December 2011 - 08:08 PM, said:

Zeitgeist pisses me off more than any record he's done. Because in my eyes, it was the only one that ever failed to meet its potential. To me, Gish-Machina II were perfect. Zwan was decent, and though he could have picked better material, the records stands well as it is. Solo, it wasn't groundbreaking, but it was the most artistic thing he's done aside from Adore.

Zeitgeist had the potential. The songs were excellent, structurally (save for Come On Lets Go and the solo in Bring The Light). The drums were immense, the guitars foreboding. The lyrics could be better, but it enjoyed a few highlights. The heavier songs had a very "apocalyptic" aura to them, and the softer songs a very peaceful, yet forceful tone.

And yet, the production KILLED it. Then if that wasn't enough, Billy sounded like ass vocally. Thanks BC. I still think if the album held some tangible emotional value to it, then it would have been excellent. Not to mention, this "darker" rougher mix he is speaking of is intriguing. It would actually do the record some justice.

Wait for the reissue.

[xyu]

Since I'm not able to start a new thread, I thought I'd add two statements made by Flood that help put into perspective why Machina is what it is sonically:

"Machina sounds so different for the pumpkins because we basically had to record it twice and there are almost no tracks where the band are all playing together. I could understand Billy's desire to maybe remix it but personally I think it is a great sonic record of what was happening to the band at that time.
All the best
Flood"

"...we originally intended to rehearse and refine the songs over a period of about 6 weeks. Then the band were going to do a short tour and then come into the studio to record the whole album in a week as live as possible.
However in the middle of the short tour all the issues with Darcey came to a head and the basic premise for making the record was no longer achievable. It was a collective decision to start again, though I believe some of the earlier versions have seen the light of day."

This next bit is my opinion:

At the end of the day, one thing you can say about the Pumpkins is they never did the same record twice, and gave us whatever they were going through at that time. And I think Billy was never satisfied with the album format because it did not allow him as an artist to release material in a more specific context. And I believe that is partly why he is doing the Teargarden project. If you don't see from the perspective of an artist, you will likely get out of the material something quite different from what was intended. Intention - Execution - Perception. There is no right way to look at Billy's work - we just have to keep the fact of artistic intention when criticizing or questioning anything he does.