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The Lucky 13 Team & Upcoming SPRC Releases SPRC

#441 User is offline   ChrisHill 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:48 AM

View Poststanding, on 19 April 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

I did read it, as well as every post in this thread. it sounds like a labored sluggish model that will result in only a few things coming out each year, all on vinyl, and immediately just bootlegged for free by the common person.


Then you *really* need to work on your reading comprehension. Which part of "tiered levels with a cheaper tier getting digital files only and a more expensive tier getting digital files plus a physical item like vinyl" read to you as "only vinyl, everyone else can suck it"?

And as for sluggish, that's a hell of an improvement over nothing, which is what we've got now.
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#442 User is offline   whywontyoulisten 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:52 AM

View PostChrisHill, on 19 April 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

Then you *really* need to work on your reading comprehension.


You *really* need to work on your social skills.
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#443 User is offline   ChrisHill 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:01 AM

View Postwhywontyoulisten, on 19 April 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

You *really* need to work on your social skills.


You're right, that was a bit harsh, it's just we're having the same undirected circular discussions that we had 2 years ago. Perhaps this is why projects aren't accomplished by telling a big group of people just to talk about it for awhile.
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#444 User is offline   werideatdusk 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:08 AM

I think it would be better to get 13 netphorians in a ring, have them slug it out with wrenches and unused copies of Blinking with fists, and have the winner decide everything about everything.

Discuss.
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#445 User is offline   BitterRootOfSelf 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:14 AM

I don't understand why you guys would want these releases on vinyl. The majority of this material will be sub par sound so wouldn't that defeat the purpose of vinyl? You are already getting all the main albums on vinyls and maybe some of the re release stuff.

Organization will be key here. I say we start out with releases from the beginning pre gish and moe forward from there. That will easiest to handle this. Start with something like the rubano tapes and make it available for digital and physical release. But don't expect anything elaborate from the physical release. From there on we need a website that will have sub folders for each year or era. Under each of those folders in time will be populated with various single releases with separate folders for alternate takes, bsides, unheard songs, live material, and video, etc for each year or era. Each of these songs will be available to download for free and some will have to pay say 50 cents or a dollar per
Song. Some items in these folders you will want more and can be sold in a package for say 10 dollars such as certain concerts or studio set out takes. Some individual videos can be streamed or downloaded but some video will be an hour long concert that you have to pay 10 dollars for. It's up to the significance and popularity of the item that will determine if it's worthy of release or for pay per download. Maybe you have to be on a mailing list to get the free lower quality downloads and other treats. Do this in chronological order so we can re live the progression of the band.
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#446 User is offline   Whicker 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:14 AM

This thread is starting to derail... you guys are just going in circles arguing digital vs vinyl and release models. At this rate the lucky 13 are better off just telling us what's gonna come out.
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#447 User is offline   CaptainFalcon 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:31 AM

The longer it takes to get something going the worse this thread is going to get.
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#448 User is offline   orchidaii 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 11:26 AM

There is going to be a forum with dedicated topics in a bit - no worries. No one is forced to discuss in circles you know :p/>
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#449 User is offline   Drevpile 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 11:41 AM

View PostChrisHill, on 18 April 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

Do you see this hub as the catalog of archive material or a place where, once something has been released, future fans can purchase digital downloads?


Yes.

IE;

This plus This plus This plus This plus This plus This plus This plus This plus This plus This = THIS

View Postorchidaii, on 19 April 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

No one is forced to discuss in circles you know :p/>


In Billy parlance, you've got to direct that energy somewhere - here it's just meandering. There's a lot of energy here. It's great. But should past experience have taught us anything - it's that this positive energy will get used up pretty fast, unless directed and supported. Frustration and negativity won't be far behind. It's like standing in a queue for something you're excited about. You can wait patiently in line for a while, but then, if you don't see the queue start to move towards the counter you start to get pissed and so does everybody else. This feeling can be for a hotdog or a comic. Imagine if it was for something people actually really gave a shit about...

This post has been edited by Drevpile: 19 April 2012 - 11:43 AM

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#450 User is offline   whywontyoulisten 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 12:06 PM

"The Lucky 13 is like standing in the queue for the circus..."
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#451 User is offline   Drevpile 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 12:22 PM

View Postwhywontyoulisten, on 19 April 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

"The Lucky 13 is like standing in the queue for the circus..."


heh, yes. But you don't know what they are going to perform... if anything. :cry:/>

Sorry, MUST STAY POSITIVE.
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#452 User is offline   davidp2007 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 12:43 PM

Since we were talking about pre-Gish through Siamese Dream material as a possible starting point, would people be interested in remastered versions of this material? I realize that there are likely people who have heard this material and I don't know how widely circulated it might be. In terms of my own collection, it seems to jump from Nothing Ever Changes to Reel Time Sessions, but I do recognize some of the names as being on the Mashed Potatoes box set:
http://www.spfc.org/...ml?session_id=2

Of course, it would help to know what material will be on the Pisces reissue. We know that the original Smashing Pumpkins demo tape will be an extra already for example. As someone else mentioned, more material from the studio sessions for Gish would be interesting. I know there was already some alternate versions of songs on the first two reissues though.
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#453 User is offline   orchidaii 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 12:44 PM

View PostDrevpile, on 19 April 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

Yes.

IE;

This plus This plus This plus This plus This plus This plus This plus This plus This plus This = THIS



In Billy parlance, you've got to direct that energy somewhere - here it's just meandering. There's a lot of energy here. It's great. But should past experience have taught us anything - it's that this positive energy will get used up pretty fast, unless directed and supported. Frustration and negativity won't be far behind. It's like standing in a queue for something you're excited about. You can wait patiently in line for a while, but then, if you don't see the queue start to move towards the counter you start to get pissed and so does everybody else. This feeling can be for a hotdog or a comic. Imagine if it was for something people actually really gave a shit about...


We just need some time to collect all the energy now. The fan community has been extremely helpful by offering great suggestions for different format and pricing structures. We are just as excited and anxious as you (the fans) to get things released, so we are also feeling the same sentiments. We are making a lot of progress behind the scenes :)/> It's not only thinking about the first release - but also the 2nd and 3rd at the same time to keep the momentum going.
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#454 User is offline   RottingApples 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:34 PM

View Postdavidp2007, on 19 April 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

Since we were talking about pre-Gish through Siamese Dream material as a possible starting point, would people be interested in remastered versions of this material? I realize that there are likely people who have heard this material and I don't know how widely circulated it might be. In terms of my own collection, it seems to jump from Nothing Ever Changes to Reel Time Sessions, but I do recognize some of the names as being on the Mashed Potatoes box set:
http://www.spfc.org/...ml?session_id=2

Of course, it would help to know what material will be on the Pisces reissue. We know that the original Smashing Pumpkins demo tape will be an extra already for example. As someone else mentioned, more material from the studio sessions for Gish would be interesting. I know there was already some alternate versions of songs on the first two reissues though.

I for one would love to see newly remastered releases of currently circulating material. Yes, it's available freely in mp3 format to anyone who wants it, but I'd love to hear cleaned up versions of the Gravity Demos, Methusela, and the Machina Acoustic Demos in a high quality, cleaned up format. I don't think that should be the priority (which should always be on unknown/ unavailable materials), but every now and then to get a release of Billy's Mellon Collie Home Demos (perhaps even as a physical release) would be a great thing.
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#455 User is offline   ChrisHill 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:45 PM

View PostRottingApples, on 19 April 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

I for one would love to see newly remastered releases of currently circulating material. Yes, it's available freely in mp3 format to anyone who wants it, but I'd love to hear cleaned up versions of the Gravity Demos, Methusela, and the Machina Acoustic Demos in a high quality, cleaned up format. I don't think that should be the priority (which should always be on unknown/ unavailable materials), but every now and then to get a release of Billy's Mellon Collie Home Demos (perhaps even as a physical release) would be a great thing.


I agree with this. I know Billy is cognizant of trying to make sure to release things that aren't "available" so that hardcore fans have a recent to purchase, but I think even among the hardcore there would be a market for things we already have if they're cleaned up and released "officially". Not as much of a market as for unleaked stuff, but while I know my Machina Acoustic Demos have no mp3 in their lineage I don't know any other details about their provenance (is there a cassette in their lineage? Possibly) and the material is worthy of a full-fidelity release.

Chris Hill
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#456 User is offline   chauncey 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:52 PM

View PostChrisHill, on 19 April 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

I agree with this. I know Billy is cognizant of trying to make sure to release things that aren't "available" so that hardcore fans have a recent to purchase, but I think even among the hardcore there would be a market for things we already have if they're cleaned up and released "officially". Not as much of a market as for unleaked stuff, but while I know my Machina Acoustic Demos have no mp3 in their lineage I don't know any other details about their provenance (is there a cassette in their lineage? Possibly) and the material is worthy of a full-fidelity release.

Chris Hill



Agreed. I would love to upgrade stuff we already have, assuming upgrades are available. I'm pretty sure Machina Acoustic Demos and FEOMM are from cassettes. I'd also love to hear all the shows that they multi-tracked. I'm onboard for whatever. Make it happen!
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#457 User is offline   orchidaii 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:09 PM

View Postchauncey, on 19 April 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Agreed. I would love to upgrade stuff we already have, assuming upgrades are available. I'm pretty sure Machina Acoustic Demos and FEOMM are from cassettes. I'd also love to hear all the shows that they multi-tracked. I'm onboard for whatever. Make it happen!


In terms of upgrades for sought after material - Should we consider those early on in the project or later on? Maybe upgrades can be a part of cyclical releases (let's say one upgrade release every 3 months). Hmm...
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#458 User is offline   ChrisHill 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:23 PM

View Postorchidaii, on 19 April 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

In terms of upgrades for sought after material - Should we consider those early on in the project or later on? Maybe upgrades can be a part of cyclical releases (let's say one upgrade release every 3 months). Hmm...


As Rotting Apples said, not high priority. Cyclical or later.

Chris Hill
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#459 User is offline   davidp2007 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:32 PM

View Postorchidaii, on 19 April 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

In terms of upgrades for sought after material - Should we consider those early on in the project or later on? Maybe upgrades can be a part of cyclical releases (let's say one upgrade release every 3 months). Hmm...

I think stuff that isn't so widely circulated should be a priority. I just thought since I personally hadn't heard some of these songs, that it might be a good starting point (as opposed to the Reel Time Sessions). But I don't know, if people can suggest something that is more rare or is of significant interest, please do.
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#460 User is offline   breathesgelatin 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:46 PM

More and more I really feel Rubano tapes are the way to start. I have been thinking so much about this the last few days. Here are my top ideas for what to release.

1. RUBANO TAPES: Realistically, if it's 30 or 50 hours of Rubano material, how many CDs would that be in a box set (or vinyl, egads??).

Maybe the solution is a 2-5 CD box set and a corresponding vinyl set with the "best of" the Rubano material, some really cool pack-ins/art, and a digital download of the rest of the stuff. The full package could be priced at $150 or $200 or something. I am just beginning to feel like $400 or $500 for EVERYTHING on CD (that's a LOT of CDS!!!) is SO much stuff and it's SO expensive, that it might not be workable.

Then various options to download all or part of it digitally. Billy suggested the idea of $5 for 12 individual tracks from the Rubano tapes. That seems totally fair and perhaps there could be a few different levels above that, as well as the complete digital download.

(Anywhere I write "download" substitute "USB," potentially, depending on the band's retail situation. Seems like they have a relationship with TopSpin who can handle the digital downloads most likely.)

2. PASTICHIO MEDLEY SET: My other idea for the first release is a complete CD/vinyl/digital release of ALL the Pastichio Medley songs. It could be called the Pastichio Medley set and have full versions of all the songs from the Medley. It would probably be two or three or maybe four CDs, I'm guessing? Of course, this option would potentially take a lot of work tracking down Pastichio Medley tracks (per Billy's discussion). I know this is not chronological exactly but I am assuming that the archive people have been looking at Mellon Collie/Aeroplane stuff lately to prepare for those reissues, at least. This could be priced very reasonably, possibly $75-100 (possibly less???) for the boxset (or more with cool pack-ins) and less for the digital?

3. TEARGARDEN DEMOS/B-SIDES SET: The other thing I really freaking want is the Mark Tulin Teargarden demos (all the Teargarden demos, really). There is so much interest in that music right now. It would be a tribute to Mark. He has the rights. He should know where the stuff is. I just fear that that material is going to get forgotten or that people won't care as much about it in a few years as they do now. If enough money is raised, some could even be given to one of Mark's favorite charities.
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#461 User is offline   chauncey 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:09 PM

View Postorchidaii, on 19 April 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

In terms of upgrades for sought after material - Should we consider those early on in the project or later on? Maybe upgrades can be a part of cyclical releases (let's say one upgrade release every 3 months). Hmm...


Cyclical; I don't think upgrades should be put on the backburner. Give priority to great quality stuff that has not been readily available in the trading community over the years. The Lucky13 should just pick a concert, demos, whatever out of the archive and make it available in lossy (for the cheap-os that don't give a shit about quality), lossless and CD. Price the releases accordingly. Take a look at DMB's "Live Trax" series, PJ's official bootleg, or The Rolling Stones' archive series for guidance and pricing.
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#462 User is offline   davidp2007 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:16 PM

View Postbreathesgelatin, on 19 April 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

More and more I really feel Rubano tapes are the way to start. I have been thinking so much about this the last few days. Here are my top ideas for what to release.

1. RUBANO TAPES: Realistically, if it's 30 or 50 hours of Rubano material, how many CDs would that be in a box set (or vinyl, egads??).

Maybe the solution is a 2-5 CD box set and a corresponding vinyl set with the "best of" the Rubano material, some really cool pack-ins/art, and a digital download of the rest of the stuff. The full package could be priced at $150 or $200 or something. I am just beginning to feel like $400 or $500 for EVERYTHING on CD (that's a LOT of CDS!!!) is SO much stuff and it's SO expensive, that it might not be workable.

Then various options to download all or part of it digitally. Billy suggested the idea of $5 for 12 individual tracks from the Rubano tapes. That seems totally fair and perhaps there could be a few different levels above that, as well as the complete digital download.

(Anywhere I write "download" substitute "USB," potentially, depending on the band's retail situation. Seems like they have a relationship with TopSpin who can handle the digital downloads most likely.)

2. PASTICHIO MEDLEY SET: My other idea for the first release is a complete CD/vinyl/digital release of ALL the Pastichio Medley songs. It could be called the Pastichio Medley set and have full versions of all the songs from the Medley. It would probably be two or three or maybe four CDs, I'm guessing? Of course, this option would potentially take a lot of work tracking down Pastichio Medley tracks (per Billy's discussion). I know this is not chronological exactly but I am assuming that the archive people have been looking at Mellon Collie/Aeroplane stuff lately to prepare for those reissues, at least. This could be priced very reasonably, possibly $75-100 (possibly less???) for the boxset (or more with cool pack-ins) and less for the digital?

3. TEARGARDEN DEMOS/B-SIDES SET: The other thing I really freaking want is the Mark Tulin Teargarden demos (all the Teargarden demos, really). There is so much interest in that music right now. It would be a tribute to Mark. He has the rights. He should know where the stuff is. I just fear that that material is going to get forgotten or that people won't care as much about it in a few years as they do now. If enough money is raised, some could even be given to one of Mark's favorite charities.

All good ideas. The Teargarden stuff will have to wait though, as Billy has suggested he wants us only to look at stuff prior to the end of the band originally. But giving some spill over to Mark's favorite charities would be a great idea. The Pumpkins have been longtime supporters of giving to charity, so that makes sense, to honor Mark's memory.

I'm not sure how a vinyl or CD box set would exactly work for the entire Rubano tapes either. I mean, Siamese Dream for example was a double vinyl and was a bit over an hour long. Now imagine 40-50 hours of material translated into vinyl alone...that's one huge boxset. So perhaps a best of box set would be the best way to go.

View Postchauncey, on 19 April 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Cyclical; I don't think upgrades should be put on the backburner. Give priority to great quality stuff that has not been readily available in the trading community over the years. The Lucky13 should just pick a concert, demos, whatever out of the archive and make it available in lossy (for the cheap-os that don't give a shit about quality), lossless and CD. Price the releases accordingly. Take a look at DMB's "Live Trax" series, PJ's official bootleg, or The Rolling Stones' archive series for guidance and pricing.

It's not about being cheap, it's about what's affordable. I am willing to have digital versions for some things to keep the costs down, because I can't afford it and sometimes it's easier to deal with digital unless it's a very special box set.
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#463 User is offline   ChrisHill 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:00 PM

View Postdavidp2007, on 19 April 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

I'm not sure how a vinyl or CD box set would exactly work for the entire Rubano tapes either. I mean, Siamese Dream for example was a double vinyl and was a bit over an hour long. Now imagine 40-50 hours of material translated into vinyl alone...that's one huge boxset. So perhaps a best of box set would be the best way to go.


Yes, as long as there's *something* to entice those who are willing and able to spend more, I would agree it doesn't have to be the whole thing as long as it's all available digitally. Vinyl people, would you prefer a "best of" piece of vinyl or a significant show (first with D'Arcy, something like that)? How much do you listen to your vinyl vs. collect it? Is old live material even worth putting on vinyl or should we discuss different premium enticements for something like Rubano?
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#464 User is offline   Chad Channing 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:34 PM

I would highly prefer all digital releases.

Cheaper, and you could release more stuff.

Also, I would prefer B sides/rarities/unheard stuff (like Pistachio Medley) over low fi demos and shit
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#465 User is offline   _________ 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:29 PM

I pretty much agree with Chris Hill all the way. Also, making money off this project after release is not an issue with Kickstarter. People put in the money, then it makes it, or it doesn't and your money is returned. People will get their music for free, anyway. With Kickstarter, you reward the loyal people with a good physical release of some novelty and quality. You can price all that in before hand. Then, no matter what, it's a success even if you don't sell millions. I would like some digital format, however. Maybe even start the Kickstarter especially for a free digital hub, with high donation tiers having special rewards like vinyl, etc. I think this also brings more casual fans in because they can get their hands on it without digging. Maybe we can turn some people on to the Pumpkins that way, even.

This post has been edited by _________: 19 April 2012 - 09:31 PM

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#466 User is offline   RottingApples 

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:58 PM

View Postbreathesgelatin, on 19 April 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

More and more I really feel Rubano tapes are the way to start. I have been thinking so much about this the last few days. Here are my top ideas for what to release.

1. RUBANO TAPES: Realistically, if it's 30 or 50 hours of Rubano material, how many CDs would that be in a box set (or vinyl, egads??).

Maybe the solution is a 2-5 CD box set and a corresponding vinyl set with the "best of" the Rubano material, some really cool pack-ins/art, and a digital download of the rest of the stuff. The full package could be priced at $150 or $200 or something. I am just beginning to feel like $400 or $500 for EVERYTHING on CD (that's a LOT of CDS!!!) is SO much stuff and it's SO expensive, that it might not be workable.

Then various options to download all or part of it digitally. Billy suggested the idea of $5 for 12 individual tracks from the Rubano tapes. That seems totally fair and perhaps there could be a few different levels above that, as well as the complete digital download.

(Anywhere I write "download" substitute "USB," potentially, depending on the band's retail situation. Seems like they have a relationship with TopSpin who can handle the digital downloads most likely.)

2. PASTICHIO MEDLEY SET: My other idea for the first release is a complete CD/vinyl/digital release of ALL the Pastichio Medley songs. It could be called the Pastichio Medley set and have full versions of all the songs from the Medley. It would probably be two or three or maybe four CDs, I'm guessing? Of course, this option would potentially take a lot of work tracking down Pastichio Medley tracks (per Billy's discussion). I know this is not chronological exactly but I am assuming that the archive people have been looking at Mellon Collie/Aeroplane stuff lately to prepare for those reissues, at least. This could be priced very reasonably, possibly $75-100 (possibly less???) for the boxset (or more with cool pack-ins) and less for the digital?

3. TEARGARDEN DEMOS/B-SIDES SET: The other thing I really freaking want is the Mark Tulin Teargarden demos (all the Teargarden demos, really). There is so much interest in that music right now. It would be a tribute to Mark. He has the rights. He should know where the stuff is. I just fear that that material is going to get forgotten or that people won't care as much about it in a few years as they do now. If enough money is raised, some could even be given to one of Mark's favorite charities.


1. Since the Rubano Tapes idea seems to be a fairly popular one, I do think it should be done fairly early on (though I still disagree with the idea of doing it as the first release). At the same time, a lot of what Billy mentioned really should be applied to that particular release. There may be 50 hours of footage/ content, but can all of that really be worthwhile? And even still, who is going to buy a box set with 50 hours of content, digital or physical, when it will undoubtedly be a very expensive release. I'd say in relation to Rubano, you could whittle it down at least in half- take 20-25 hours of content, and do a series of releases: Rubano Box Vol. 1, Vol. 2, etc. as separate releases. Each box would contain different content from each other, obviously, and the releases (while still being decent sized box sets) would be much more manageable as releases than if it was put out as one monster release of 50 hours. Each Volume could be 3 CDs, 1 DVD, and for each Volume there could be a "Best of the Volume" single disc compilation. I think what's key in this project is knowing appropriate limitations. People want content, that's a given. And people likely want a lot of content. But once $$ figures start reaching too high a number, people start to get concerned/ agitated and it throws a wrench into the release. Regardless of how much content. People will not be willing to spend more than $XX amount for any release, regardless of how much the release holds. So the best thing to do, especially in a case like Rubano, or the many Mellon Collie demos that exist, would be to break them down into separate releases. Sometimes they could be 3-4 disc box sets, other times they may be a single CD or DVD. I could see vinyl working with Rubano, depending on the specific content, but being limited to 1-2 LPs of the best of the content of a given release. There'd be no way to do multiple hours upon hours on vinyl.

2. I definitely dig the idea of a Pastichio Medley box set, and think it would go over quite well as a 3-4 disc box. I'd say the price you quoted (while understandably a hypothetical number) would be a bit on the high end, even for a physical package. Again, once things start to get on the expensive side, people start to get upset and alienated. If nothing else, like I said above, if one release starts to get to large, don't try to charge $200 for a 10 disc set. Break it down into smaller collections for cheaper amounts.

3. While I am interested in the TbK demos, I don't think that would be something worth working with at the moment or in the near future. If anything, I think there will be more interest for those demos down the line once time has passed than whatever interest may exist for them now. I hope those recordings come out, but they should definitely wait until the majority of everything else has already been released.
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#467 User is offline   Sophie 

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:29 AM

View PostChrisHill, on 19 April 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Yes, as long as there's *something* to entice those who are willing and able to spend more, I would agree it doesn't have to be the whole thing as long as it's all available digitally. Vinyl people, would you prefer a "best of" piece of vinyl or a significant show (first with D'Arcy, something like that)? How much do you listen to your vinyl vs. collect it? Is old live material even worth putting on vinyl or should we discuss different premium enticements for something like Rubano?

The format of vinyl records implies that you often listen the record straight from its beginning to its end. You don't want to get up and achieve some precise placing of the needle every 5 min. Consequently you can't easily make a personal selection of the tracks, skip the ones you appreciate less, etc. For this reason I think printing full shows (with a some kind of unity, progression in the music, etc) makes more sense to me as far as releases on vinyls are concerned rather than a "best of" collection. Things printed on vinyls must be in the first place things designed to be listened "as a whole" in my opinion.

To me "best of" is the format that goes well with video releases. Great soundtracks without great images does not necessarily make great videos. This is why I think some live performances desserve an audio release but not necessarily a video one. Then the best moments can be put together along with other great live performances to make a great collection of live experiences to share with the fans.

I listen to vinyls several times a week (which sadly doesn't mean that I have time to just sit down and listen to them), I own hundreds of them (some that I bought until quite recently, and some quite old given to me by my parents and other relatives) but right now they all are in my moving boxes... I wish I had a better audio equipment though but you know first things first.

PS: don't forget Record Store Day this week end. In France it is called "Disquaire day" (why this semi translation?) and it is only the second edition. I hope it is going to be great!
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#468 User is offline   standing 

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 06:50 AM

View PostChrisHill, on 19 April 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

Then you *really* need to work on your reading comprehension. Which part of "tiered levels with a cheaper tier getting digital files only and a more expensive tier getting digital files plus a physical item like vinyl" read to you as "only vinyl, everyone else can suck it"?

And as for sluggish, that's a hell of an improvement over nothing, which is what we've got now.


I'm just concerned with too much emphasis being placed on upper tier people being the only ones who get to collect everything. this project wont be fun if paying for the lower tiers only gets you a few tracks. I don't know, even talking about any of this stuff is probably pointless now anyway. it sounds like lucky13 is starting to decide on stuff behind the scenes.



View PostRottingApples, on 19 April 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

I for one would love to see newly remastered releases of currently circulating material. Yes, it's available freely in mp3 format to anyone who wants it, but I'd love to hear cleaned up versions of the Gravity Demos, Methusela, and the Machina Acoustic Demos in a high quality, cleaned up format. I don't think that should be the priority (which should always be on unknown/ unavailable materials), but every now and then to get a release of Billy's Mellon Collie Home Demos (perhaps even as a physical release) would be a great thing.


definitely

View PostChrisHill, on 19 April 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

I agree with this. I know Billy is cognizant of trying to make sure to release things that aren't "available" so that hardcore fans have a recent to purchase, but I think even among the hardcore there would be a market for things we already have if they're cleaned up and released "officially". Not as much of a market as for unleaked stuff, but while I know my Machina Acoustic Demos have no mp3 in their lineage I don't know any other details about their provenance (is there a cassette in their lineage? Possibly) and the material is worthy of a full-fidelity release.

Chris Hill


definitely

View Postorchidaii, on 19 April 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

In terms of upgrades for sought after material - Should we consider those early on in the project or later on? Maybe upgrades can be a part of cyclical releases (let's say one upgrade release every 3 months). Hmm...


upgrades should just fit in where appropriate.

View Postbreathesgelatin, on 19 April 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

More and more I really feel Rubano tapes are the way to start. I have been thinking so much about this the last few days. Here are my top ideas for what to release.

1. RUBANO TAPES: Realistically, if it's 30 or 50 hours of Rubano material, how many CDs would that be in a box set (or vinyl, egads??).

Maybe the solution is a 2-5 CD box set and a corresponding vinyl set with the "best of" the Rubano material, some really cool pack-ins/art, and a digital download of the rest of the stuff. The full package could be priced at $150 or $200 or something. I am just beginning to feel like $400 or $500 for EVERYTHING on CD (that's a LOT of CDS!!!) is SO much stuff and it's SO expensive, that it might not be workable.

Then various options to download all or part of it digitally. Billy suggested the idea of $5 for 12 individual tracks from the Rubano tapes. That seems totally fair and perhaps there could be a few different levels above that, as well as the complete digital download.

(Anywhere I write "download" substitute "USB," potentially, depending on the band's retail situation. Seems like they have a relationship with TopSpin who can handle the digital downloads most likely.)

2. PASTICHIO MEDLEY SET: My other idea for the first release is a complete CD/vinyl/digital release of ALL the Pastichio Medley songs. It could be called the Pastichio Medley set and have full versions of all the songs from the Medley. It would probably be two or three or maybe four CDs, I'm guessing? Of course, this option would potentially take a lot of work tracking down Pastichio Medley tracks (per Billy's discussion). I know this is not chronological exactly but I am assuming that the archive people have been looking at Mellon Collie/Aeroplane stuff lately to prepare for those reissues, at least. This could be priced very reasonably, possibly $75-100 (possibly less???) for the boxset (or more with cool pack-ins) and less for the digital?

3. TEARGARDEN DEMOS/B-SIDES SET: The other thing I really freaking want is the Mark Tulin Teargarden demos (all the Teargarden demos, really). There is so much interest in that music right now. It would be a tribute to Mark. He has the rights. He should know where the stuff is. I just fear that that material is going to get forgotten or that people won't care as much about it in a few years as they do now. If enough money is raised, some could even be given to one of Mark's favorite charities.


Billy said in an interview that a pistachio release would nor be that interesting because the full songs are just them jamming those clips for a few minutes.
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#469 User is offline   WayneArnold 

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 06:51 AM

Here's another fantastic idea for you lot:

To ensure the physical copies sell, they'd be mailed out to people before everyone else gets their digital copies. So you'd get your vinyl a month, 2 weeks?, before the digital is released. Some extra incentive to spend the money.


You're welcome.
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#470 User is offline   RottingApples 

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 07:31 AM

View Poststanding, on 20 April 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

Billy said in an interview that a pistachio release would nor be that interesting because the full songs are just them jamming those clips for a few minutes.

I think Billy underestimates just how much fans really are interested in it though. Sure, a number of tracks are probably noodling- jammy things, but I'd wager the vast majority of Pastichio content is similar to the Gravity Demos (of which, some of them are a part of the Medley). And to say the Gravity Demos are popular with the hardcore fanbase would be an understatement. Hell, I listen to Gravity more often than I listen to Mellon Collie these days... Pastichio would be a bad idea for the main re-issues, but would be a perfect release for the SPRC.
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#471 User is offline   crestfallen73 

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 07:34 AM

View PostWayneArnold, on 20 April 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

Here's another fantastic idea for you lot:

To ensure the physical copies sell, they'd be mailed out to people before everyone else gets their digital copies. So you'd get your vinyl a month, 2 weeks?, before the digital is released. Some extra incentive to spend the money.


You're welcome.


How is that an incentive? Isn't a part of collecting items on vinyl usually not opening them? So, where is the incentive to have an item before people who get the digital and actually listen to the material? Sort of like this...

Person A: "Dude! Check out this awesome new SP vinyl that I got! It's still in it's shrink wrap and everything!"
Person B: Pulls off earphones," Huh? I didn't hear you. I am blasting this awesome SP song! Sweet drink coaster!"
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#472 User is offline   WayneArnold 

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 07:48 AM

View Postcrestfallen73, on 20 April 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

How is that an incentive? Isn't a part of collecting items on vinyl usually not opening them?



Uh, what?
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#473 User is offline   whywontyoulisten 

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 08:35 AM

You might as well just buy 12" cardboard pictures of the artwork.
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#474 User is offline   ChrisHill 

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 08:51 AM

View Poststanding, on 20 April 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

I'm just concerned with too much emphasis being placed on upper tier people being the only ones who get to collect everything. this project wont be fun if paying for the lower tiers only gets you a few tracks. I don't know, even talking about any of this stuff is probably pointless now anyway. it sounds like lucky13 is starting to decide on stuff behind the scenes.


I wouldn't be in favor of anything where it's not possible to get all the music (with no packaging, extras, whatnot) in a lossless format for a reasonable price considering what it is (for something like Rubano where it's 40-50 hours of music, that price would surely be higher than for a single show). It seems that most people want just digital downloads of the music anyway, it's like Siamese Singles vs. Siamese Dream. You can download Siamese Dream on iTunes for a reasonable price if you just want to listen to it, which is what the majority of people have done, but if you're a collector you can buy Siamese Singles for however many hundreds of dollars it goes for these days. The non-collectors can still hear all the tracks from Siamese Singles (without taking the time to check, I would assume they're all part of the Rarities & B-Sides iTunes collection), the collector gets their collectible. The difference is here we need to collect the money up front before anything gets released at all, so we leverage both of those market segments at once.

I would imagine there would be very few people who could afford the "collectible" version of every release. I am personally very invested in the release of the Rubano tapes, so I would get the premium tier item for that but would probably just buy the digital download for a lot of other things (live shows and whatnot). I think the goal of this project would be to make sure everyone who wants to buy the music can do so, but people can pick and choose which items they're so interested in that they want to invest at a higher level to make sure it gets released. Ideally different people are highly-invested in different types of items, that way we meet the up-front monetary goal for everything and everything gets released in some format or another.

Chris Hill
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#475 User is offline   WayneArnold 

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:28 AM

View PostChrisHill, on 20 April 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

I wouldn't be in favor of anything where it's not possible to get all the music (with no packaging, extras, whatnot) in a lossless format for a reasonable price considering what it is (for something like Rubano where it's 40-50 hours of music, that price would surely be higher than for a single show). It seems that most people want just digital downloads of the music anyway, it's like Siamese Singles vs. Siamese Dream. You can download Siamese Dream on iTunes for a reasonable price if you just want to listen to it, which is what the majority of people have done, but if you're a collector you can buy Siamese Singles for however many hundreds of dollars it goes for these days. The non-collectors can still hear all the tracks from Siamese Singles (without taking the time to check, I would assume they're all part of the Rarities & B-Sides iTunes collection), the collector gets their collectible. The difference is here we need to collect the money up front before anything gets released at all, so we leverage both of those market segments at once.

I would imagine there would be very few people who could afford the "collectible" version of every release. I am personally very invested in the release of the Rubano tapes, so I would get the premium tier item for that but would probably just buy the digital download for a lot of other things (live shows and whatnot). I think the goal of this project would be to make sure everyone who wants to buy the music can do so, but people can pick and choose which items they're so interested in that they want to invest at a higher level to make sure it gets released. Ideally different people are highly-invested in different types of items, that way we meet the up-front monetary goal for everything and everything gets released in some format or another.

Chris Hill



Amen, Christopher. :cheers:/>
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#476 User is offline   ShamanO 

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:36 AM

I think breathesgelatin and RottingApples have made brought good ideas on how to release the Rubano Tapes.

cutting it down to best of's is ideally the way to go.

I can't imagine that many hours of music and all of it being sellable. we don't even know what is on them.
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#477 User is offline   Drevpile 

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:08 AM

View PostShamanO, on 20 April 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

we don't even know what is on them.


Hence, they need a catalogue.
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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:10 AM

i hope that is being done.
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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:21 AM

View PostDrevpile, on 20 April 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

Hence, they need a catalogue.


While we're waiting, you may want to check the SPFC tour history for 1988 and 1989. There are a lot of setlists there with no recording information that weren't there a couple of years ago. I would suspect those comprise at least part of the Rubano tapes.

Chris Hill
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#480 User is offline   ShamanO 

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:24 AM

off topic from Rubano tapes....I would like to see a full acoustic album come out eventually
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#481 User is offline   ShamanO 

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:44 AM

let me clarify...best of acoustic songs up until 2000
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#482 User is offline   WayneArnold 

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:45 AM

View PostDrevpile, on 20 April 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

Hence, they need a catalogue.



Yes. If you'll notice, before the interview no one was clamoring for the release of the Rubano tapes. But once we were told they could be released, people have Rubano Fever. Why? BECAUSE IT'S THE ONLY FUCKING THING WE KNOW EXISTS. Give us a damn list. Not even of everything. Lucky 13, make a list of three releases as candidates and let us vote.
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#483 User is offline   standing 

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:33 AM

View PostShamanO, on 20 April 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

let me clarify...best of acoustic songs up until 2000


or how bout an acoustic version of each album?
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#484 User is offline   ChrisHill 

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:50 AM

View Poststanding, on 20 April 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

Billy said in an interview that a pistachio release would nor be that interesting because the full songs are just them jamming those clips for a few minutes.


I've long thought this as well, but In the Arms of Sheep has a snippet of lyrics in the PM clip, and Speed was performed twice as a fully-formed song at the Double Door so presumably was rehearsed as such. I think it's a safe guess that most of the PM "songs" are just jammed riffs, but were enough of them worked into songs to make up an interesting release? Possibly, once someone takes the time to go through everything.

Chris Hill
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