[CoolAsIceCream]

^ lol check out this guy

[Sophie]

CoolAsIceCream, on 23 April 2012 - 02:03 AM, said:

seriously though, how silly to get all offended about someone calling an adult woman a "girl" (omg! so sexist!!!), only to do the same thing 90 minutes later.

If the debate was on "girl" vs "woman", then you're absolutely right, that was not relevant.
This being said I reckon cleric could have said "orchidaii" or "Marie" instead of "the picture site girl", but let's imagine that he only forgot her name at the time and was too lazy to check in former posts. Gentlemen are getting rarer and rarer in this day and age ;)/>. Anyway the whole debate is not very interesting so...

..let's speak of what is bankable or not for further SP releases instead. I just wanted to tell you that Record Store Day (aka Disquaire Day in "french") was a great success in France this week end. People were litterally queuing outside before the doors open, records flew out of the stores (and not only vinyls but quite surprisingly CDs as well) and retailers were quickly running out of stock.

Given that plenty of the records sold on this day were reissues, rarities and B-sides I guess this proves there is a viable market for this type of things.
http://disquaireday.fr/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/d2.jpg

[CoolAsIceCream]

Sophie, on 23 April 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

This being said I reckon cleric could have said "orchidaii" or "Marie" instead of "the picture site girl"

there's nothing sexist about that.

and i think record store day is overhyped.
i think people would buy anything on that day, as long as it's "limited" or special in some way. ("omg! coloured vinyl!")
maybe the can keep that up once a year, but i doubt there would be as much interest if there were several releases each year.

so, in my opinion, it's not the best example to compare sprc to.

This post has been edited by CoolAsIceCream: 23 April 2012 - 06:12 AM

[standing]

Sophie, on 23 April 2012 - 01:25 AM, said:

Uh oh. Look who's back and raring to go again :D/>.

I was kinda wondering why he wasn't in here...

[WayneArnold]

CoolAsIceCream, on 23 April 2012 - 06:11 AM, said:

there's nothing sexist about that.

and i think record store day is overhyped.
i think people would buy anything on that day, as long as it's "limited" or special in some way. ("omg! coloured vinyl!")
maybe the can keep that up once a year, but i doubt there would be as much interest if there were several releases each year.

so, in my opinion, it's not the best example to compare sprc to.

In 20 years, Record Store Releases will be worth nothing. They're like the Beanie Babies of vinyl.

[Sophie]

CoolAsIceCream, on 23 April 2012 - 06:11 AM, said:

there's nothing sexist about that.

Never said it was. I'm just saying that "Bram" is more friendly than "this Icecream guy" :p/>.

CoolAsIceCream, on 23 April 2012 - 06:11 AM, said:

and i think record store day is overhyped.
i think people would buy anything on that day, as long as it's "limited" or special in some way. ("omg! coloured vinyl!")
maybe the can keep that up once a year, but i doubt there would be as much interest if there were several releases each year.

so, in my opinion, it's not the best example to compare sprc to.

Obviously the approach is different between sprc project and a worldwide event like Record Store Day. The problem is that I can't see clearly who sprc is trying to reach with this new program (even after a 10 page debate ;)/>).

If we are talking about fanbase only then let's just focus on WHAT should be released. If we are talking about a larger public then maybe the question of the format is indeed relevant and maybe putting a little hype in the whole thing might not be a bad idea. Plenty of people heard about some releases thanks to the media covering the event so I guess this could be helpful to launch the lucky 13 program for instance or hightlight its first successes if you don't want to wait until next year for the project to begin. My point here is why not surf the wave?
The fact that RSD was a success surely doesn't mean that sprc project will be a success as well but if RSD had been a total flop I guess people would have been reluctant to think about physical releases in the future, don't you think?

(And as far as I'm concerned it's been a while since I saw people queuing like this outside independant stores for records!)
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/580500_10150667182560855_318243450854_9817708_866489955_n.jpg
Edit:

WayneArnold, on 23 April 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

In 20 years, Record Store Releases will be worth nothing. They're like the Beanie Babies of vinyl.

I agree with you on the fact that people who buy records on pure speculation purposes are wrong in all possible ways.

This post has been edited by Sophie: 23 April 2012 - 07:02 AM

[ShamanO]

.absof., on 23 April 2012 - 03:27 AM, said:

So it's been almost four months since "Have Faithe, Be Merry". Is anything else gonna be released. Ever? Throw us a bone..

this^

we need another snack before the meal is served in June

[Duhze]

I've been away from the board for a while, came back and saw this. I read through the first 5 or so pages and understand the concept of what's going on. would anyone care to enlighten me if anything has been announced yet?

btw I would kill for studio demoes of 20th anniversary songs with JC

[werideatdusk]

davidp2007, on 22 April 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

That's an interesting take on things. For me, I generally associate Adore with the summer, because it was originally released on June 1 and 2 1998. I think Billy's description of it is 'arcane night music' is appropriate, as the feel is more conducive to the night, especially driving at night. But that doesn't mean I only listen to it at night. Siamese Dream is something I associated with summer too, since it has a deceptively bright sound to it and it was released originally on July 26, 1993 (if I remember correctly) but that reissue was released in November.

Because I love to drive things off-topic, here are the 'months' I associate with the SP albums
Gish - November
Siamese Dream - July
Pisces Iscariot - March (silly!)
Mellon Collie - August
Adore - December
Machina - October
Zeitgeist - August
Teargarden 1-10 - May

Proved.

[ShamanO]

Gish-winter
SD-spring and summer
PI-fall
MCIS- winter
Adore-spring and summer
Machina-sping
Machina II-winter
Zeitgeist-fall
TBK-summer



Oceania all seasons

[Drevpile]

Duhze, on 23 April 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

... would anyone care to enlighten me if anything has been announced yet?

btw I would kill for studio demoes of 20th anniversary songs with JC

No, nothing of value or worth. At all. I'm hoping that for whatever reason 'the lucky13' have pretty much fallen silent is a bloody good one; This conversation doesn't really appear to be getting anyone anywhere.

I can tell you that, as cool as those JC tracks could be, Bill says the project, for the time being, is limited to material up to the year 2000.

[chadbrochillington]

Welp, I've already lost interest.

[TheLucky13]

chadbrochillington, on 23 April 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

Welp, I've already lost interest.

Sorry to hear that.
There might be some frustrating moments along the way, but we're super thrilled about this project. We've looked through the various fan outlets, made lots of notes, read through some old archived conversations that were recovered, and are in the process of recommending some initial releases to SPRC. We also are very aware of the "announcement of announcement of announcement" stuff that has overjoyed our community, and want to avoid communicating for no reason other than to sustain momentum, which just ends up being frustrating for everyone.
If it unfolds as planned, this project is going to be long term, so don't burn yourselves out.

We do hope to have a forum set up in the next few days or so.

Again, thank you (plural) for your input.

[chadbrochillington]

TheLucky13, on 23 April 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

recommending some initial releases to SPRC.

And what might these be?

[ChrisHill]

TheLucky13, on 23 April 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

We also are very aware of the "announcement of announcement of announcement" stuff that has overjoyed our community, and want to avoid communicating for no reason other than to sustain momentum, which just ends up being frustrating for everyone.

There's a way to do this to be transparent and inclusive without being annoying. Saying "we're going to have some big news next week, stay tuned..." is annoying and serves no purpose outside of trying to keep people interested. Giving a status report of what you've been working on is not annoying. For instance, if you submit three ideas to Billy and he rejects two of them (or you decide against them because they'd be too expensive), that would be useful information for everyone to know if you do indeed expect people to participate by making suggestions. Example: You suggest Adore Demos to Billy, you tell everyone that you've suggested this to Billy, this will clue people in that there is no more need to suggest Adore Demos until Billy gets back to you. If he gets back to you and says "oh, I want to save those until the Adore re-release in case I want to use them for the bonus disc", that would guide us in a general direction that would be useful (a direction towards eras that have already been re-released, which has already been suggested by many people for this very reason, but hearing it directly from Billy may make a difference).

Chris Hill

[Duhze]

Drevpile, on 23 April 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

No, nothing of value or worth. At all. I'm hoping that for whatever reason 'the lucky13' have pretty much fallen silent is a bloody good one; This conversation doesn't really appear to be getting anyone anywhere.

I can tell you that, as cool as those JC tracks could be, Bill says the project, for the time being, is limited to material up to the year 2000.

Thanks for the info Drevpile

[kylekasino]

Oh man! I am so excited for the launch of this new section of the board. Between the e-mail address, facebook page, and other parts of this forum and others like it, there clearly were not enough areas for me to vent my pointless ideas about this. I cannot wait to see 10,000 new threads eerily similar to this one. I am so glad that their first priority is to work on something that has absolutely nothing tangible to do with getting closer to putting out a first release. #sarcasm

Ok, I'm sorry for those snarky remarks but I don't understand why it would take more than a day or two outside of the 12 days you've already had since the launch (and who knows how many days prior to the launch) to create this. I'm not exactly a master web technician but it is not some elaborate project. It's simple html coding. But whatever. Let's presume there is a good reason. If you basically can't do anything constructive in two full weeks, except potentially create this new board sub-section, why should people assume in another 2 weeks you will have done anything concrete. So if after a month, you have still accomplished nothing, what then? How much discussion is honestly necessary? Two months? Four months? What's the timeline here? I know you are all working hard trying to be fair and reasonable and we all appreciate that but the fact that you have chosen this new board to be the first focus of attention (when it should've easily been done at the initial press launch) is pretty frustrating. No wonder people are getting upset. You already aren't listening.

The single most driven home point in these 13 plus pages is people want SOMETHING. They might be split on what (duh), but at the end of day they just want to satisfy the itch. You have this awesome window of a few month period where people are on a crazy Pumpkin high, waiting on this much anticipated album, 5 years since their last full length release. You are wasting a huge opportunity by not tapping into to that right now. They don't want to talk and bitch and go in circles. They want to LISTEN. They want to get excited for the new by listening to the old. You have our attention. Utilize it.

No one single thing has been done between now and then to bring us any closer to that as far as has been communicated. You want to see what works, and what doesn't? It's called trial and error. Make an attempt, take a shot. Own this. You only need to have one sit down meeting or Skype conference call. You all sit with your notes of feedback of what you've seen suggested that you like, or that could work. You discuss it between yourselves and come to a conclusion for the initial model at the end of the call. You present that model to Billy, while simultaneously posting it for everyone to see. Boom. This takes ONE day. Once Billy has approved, you begin to set deadlines, and start the hype process. If he doesn't approve, then he outlines why, for all of us to see so we can understand the process further and curtail our demands accordingly, and then you take that feedback, along with what has been commented on during this small window, and you go back to the drawing board (or have a couple plans B and C lined up) - but at least you tried something and most people will ultimately respect that.

I don't know if there is a single soul here that is confident we will see anything prior to the Oceania release. Depressing. Billy is going to want people to spend a lot of time with that record, so I don't imagine we will see anything post release for a little while either. By that point we are now like 6 months after the announcement and people will be ready to burn down your houses with torches, and by the time something does actually come out, unless it is the second coming of jesus christ on exctasy, all the haters will shit all over it, saying we waited all this time for THIS?

We support you. We trust you. You are hard working dedicated fans. Trust yourselves and your judgement, and just fucking do something. Do it between now and mid may. It's doable. Make that commitment to everyone and have the confidence to do so, and you will see a huge wave of support. Even if it is a $5 digital download of a 6 track EP, I promise you the response will be encouraging. How many people need to post this sentiment before it gets ingrained in your skulls? Or is this, in your minds (or Billy's), just flat out not a possibility, and if so, the least you can do is temper expectations and say we should not expect any release until the Fall, and for those uninterested in the process, to check back then. THAT is the kind of communication we appreciate. Not 'do you like our logo' or 'we *hope* to have a forum up and running with a few days' or 'we are taking notes' 'are in the process of' etc etc. Do you not even see the irony of saying you are cautious of making announcements of announcements, and then doing that EXACT thing within the same post about the new forum? 10,000 more threads of eveyone's own personal ideas based on thin air speculation from people who have no business acumen whatsoever are not going to bring you any closer to the goal here. Until you understand that, this project is dead man walking.

I want so much to believe.

[Drevpile]

TheLucky13, on 23 April 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

If it unfolds as planned...

Care to enlighten us fans, who are supposed to feel included in the deciding the plan, what the plan actually is then... ? Shouldnt you be coming to us with a proposal and then actually checking what the consensus against it?

chadbrochillington, on 23 April 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

And what might these be?

^ you can't actually be approaching Billy at this stage surely? Please be transparent. As teacher would say, please show workings...

ChrisHill, on 23 April 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

There's a way to do this to be transparent and inclusive without being annoying. Saying "we're going to have some big news next week, stay tuned..." is annoying and serves no purpose outside of trying to keep people interested. Giving a status report of what you've been working on is not annoying...

^

kylekasino, on 23 April 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

Oh man! I am so excited for the launch of this new section of the board. Between the e-mail address, facebook page, and other parts of this forum and others like it, there clearly were not enough areas for me to vent my pointless ideas about this. I cannot wait to see 10,000 new threads eerily similar to this one. I am so glad that their first priority is to work on something that has absolutely nothing tangible to do with getting closer to putting out a first release...

^

This post has been edited by Drevpile: 23 April 2012 - 11:41 PM

[CoolAsIceCream]

kylekasino, on 23 April 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

Ok, I'm sorry for those snarky remarks but I don't understand why it would take more than a day or two outside of the 12 days you've already had since the launch (and who knows how many days prior to the launch) to create this. I'm not exactly a master web technician but it is not some elaborate project. It's simple html coding. But whatever. Let's presume there is a good reason. If you basically can't do anything constructive in two full weeks, except potentially create this new board sub-section, why should people assume in another 2 weeks you will have done anything concrete. So if after a month, you have still accomplished nothing, what then? How much discussion is honestly necessary? Two months? Four months? What's the timeline here? I know you are all working hard trying to be fair and reasonable and we all appreciate that but the fact that you have chosen this new board to be the first focus of attention (when it should've easily been done at the initial press launch) is pretty frustrating. No wonder people are getting upset. You already aren't listening.

the thing is they rushed the whole thing in order to announce it on friday the 13th.
after that - phew, just on time - there were a couple of days of blabbing around, without any direction. and only then a one hour interview (wtf) was released, clarifying a couple of things.

yep, that really added value to the whole experience. it's like so symbolic and all. friday the 13th! lucky 13! this can't be a coincidence! love it!

[Sunflowerdagger]

Dusty, on 13 April 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

I would love to hear the Tulin demos. I know that's risky in case the band decides to return to that material, but if there are songs that have been scrapped from Teargarden, I think that would be my number one area of interest. A new dosumentary would fall into that category, although I know that is a huge expense.

I also think its a shame that the Live Smashing Pumpkins recordings were taken down. The mastered 20th Anniversary Shows sounded great, and as someone who wasn't a fan at the time, I would have liked to have gotten a physical copy of a Black Crosses/White Sunshine two night stand.

Mastered Viper Room/Bridge School Benefit recordings would be sweet as well.

This is really excitting. :)/>

As far as pricing goes, I think the band, or someone in management should basically decide. We don'y get a say in what a cd costs; if the product is available for a reaosnable price, people (at least those here) will buy it.

Conversly, I think a kickstarter type thing could work well (it obviously worked for the Cold And Lovely and I think the Pumpkins have a much wider fanbase).

Yes! Black Crosses/white sunshine. Love to see that as well!
What are the Tulin demos?
First thing that comes to my mind is spirits in the sky.
I'd love to hear any other unreleased songs from the Spirits in the Sky time. ( I feel like there are some professer pyschedelic treasures)

I realize there are so many rare rubies from way back when. (but I was still in diapers *giggle*)

I'd like to hear Machina 1 & 2 and maybe 3? ;)/> demos. And for sure the songs that didn't make the aray of colored zeitgeist's.

The first and last Metros shows.

....(thinking harder)

♥♥♥

[Sophie]

Drevpile, on 23 April 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Bill says the project, for the time being, is limited to material up to the year 2000.

[Sunflowerdagger]

Nice..... ok..... :whattodo:/>

[Sunflowerdagger]

Machina is near and dear to my soul. Any songs/rough drafts would be amazing.

[orchidaii]

kylekasino, on 23 April 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

Oh man! I am so excited for the launch of this new section of the board. Between the e-mail address, facebook page, and other parts of this forum and others like it, there clearly were not enough areas for me to vent my pointless ideas about this. I cannot wait to see 10,000 new threads eerily similar to this one. I am so glad that their first priority is to work on something that has absolutely nothing tangible to do with getting closer to putting out a first release. #sarcasm

Drevpile, on 23 April 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

No, nothing of value or worth. At all. I'm hoping that for whatever reason 'the lucky13' have pretty much fallen silent is a bloody good one; This conversation doesn't really appear to be getting anyone anywhere.

I can tell you that, as cool as those JC tracks could be, Bill says the project, for the time being, is limited to material up to the year 2000.

It is a good one!
While the situation is not 100% the same - just think of it this way...when spfc.org, splra.org, spfreaks.com or even my site were being built...Did you guys get restless over the time it took? Were you complaining along the way how it wasn't getting done fast enough for you? Were you getting all angry because it wasn't being done how you liked? No? Not really? Did you get a good final product in the end? Yes?

This is very much the same - a bunch of fans who are willing to put in hard work to create a useful resource for all Smashing Pumpkins fans to enjoy. We get absolutely nothing out of this other than getting music released and fulfilling our 'completist' natures.

If we're being extra careful it's because there are legal issues, kickstarter rules, potential production pitfalls and we're dealing with $ here.

[Drevpile]

There we go, not so hard to be clear about the parameters of our supposed "essential" involvement in the project is it; shut up, stop moaning and let us get on with this at this stage, trust us for we are the experts and we'll ask you lesser fans about it when we feel like it.

Well, fair enough. Genuine thanks for the clarity.

Reading between the lines though - I'm also glad you appear to be actually setting up a hub - is it my dream hub that ill pay $ into, well you clearly know better than I ...

[orchidaii]

Drevpile, on 24 April 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

There we go, not so hard to be clear about the parameters of our supposed "essential" involvement in the project is it; shut up, stop moaning and let us get on with this at this stage, trust us for we are the experts and we'll ask you lesser fans about it when we feel like it.

Well, fair enough. Genuine thanks for the clarity.

Reading between the lines though - I'm also glad you appear to be actually setting up a hub - is it my dream hub that ill pay $ into, well you clearly know better than I ...

You're impossible. We're planning the next steps on how to involve fans with the first release. I never said in any way that I was above any fan. If I thought this, I wouldn't have gone out of my way to answer all those previous posts. I wouldn't have given a damn about concerns.

[Drevpile]

Me, impossible? I am simply asking very clearly for clarity - that is all I ask. Let us all know, equal fan to equal fan, what is happening. What is the plan? Once we understand what the hell is going on with this thing - then I at least will stop misreading meanings in posts / asking dumb f-ing questions...

This post has been edited by Drevpile: 24 April 2012 - 08:31 AM

[savethetiger]

orchidaii, on 24 April 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

You're impossible. We're planning the next steps on how to involve the fans with the first release. I never said in any way that I was above any fan. If I thought this, I wouldn't have gone out of my way to answer all those previous posts. I wouldn't have given a damn about concerns.

Yeah but instead of planning the next steps of 'how to involve the fans' all the fans really want is to be told what the next step IS. This is what no one on your team seems to be grasping - we have no real tangible reason to believe at this point there even is a decided upon move between yourselves. We're glad that apparently there is one now as you say, but there are also no rules or legal reasons preventing you from discussing how you've interpreted the data so far and how you are currently planning to implement, outside of your own personal decision not to. This is what Drevpile was getting at. I believe he was sincere when saying thank you for the clarity there. It's not illegal to post a hypothetical business plan. To discuss what material is being highlighted as a potential first release. You just simply do not care to deciminate that information, for reasons unknown.

[Drevpile]

Yes. This. :cry:/> That is all.

[orchidaii]

savethetiger, on 24 April 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

Yeah but instead of planning the next steps of 'how to involve the fans' all the fans really want is to be told what the next step IS. This is what no one on your team seems to be grasping - we have no real tangible reason to believe at this point there even is a decided upon move between yourselves. We're glad that apparently there is one now as you say, but there are also no rules or legal reasons preventing you from discussing how you've interpreted the data so far and how you are currently planning to implement, outside of your own personal decision not to. This is what Drevpile was getting at. I believe he was sincere when saying thank you for the clarity there. It's not illegal to post a hypothetical business plan. To discuss what material is being highlighted as a potential first release. You just simply do not care to deciminate that information, for reasons unknown.

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic. What I meant to say is that the way he interprets statements is really frustrating because he automatically goes to the worst possible scenario. This project is run on good intent, we want it to succeed and we want fans to have the music in their hands.

As stated before, we're going to avoid announcements of announcements so that is why you have not received an update thus far. So, I wanted to confirm that we are still working on things.

[savethetiger]

orchidaii, on 24 April 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic. What I meant to say is that the way he interprets statements is really frustrating because he automatically goes to the worst possible scenario. This project is run on good intent, we want it to succeed and we want fans to have the music in their hands.

As stated before, we're going to avoid announcements of announcements so that is why you have not received an update thus far. So, I wanted to confirm that we are still working on things.

So instead of making an announcement of an announcement, you've come to announce that no announcement of any information whatsoever is imminent. Righttttttt. That's sooo much better! I mean you did this big roll out less than 2 weeks ago - I sure as fuck hope you are still working on things, why the hell would that needed to be confirmed?

If you can't give out the secretive illuminati cliff notes of what the discussions already had entailed, the least you could do is say why you are choosing to go this route of protected information. And if you don't have a reason (don't use the legal scapegoat), other than it makes you feel cool, then just come straight out and say that in a round about way. And people will honestly still be relatively cool with it, so long as you simultaneously give a date they can look forward to, either in terms of a release, or in terms of a posted finished project/outline/business plan, etc. It also keeps everyone accountable.

Like you don't go out and attention whore yourselves, say look at us here we are, like us on facebook, and upon doing so, say ok now we are going dark for an undisclosed amount of time. We'll come with some info whenever we get around to deciding to share it. Like who does that to people?

[Drevpile]

I wasn't being sarcastic. What I am saying is that, saying stuff like "working on things" means absolutely nothing to anyone but you and the team. It's maddening to the rest of us. Look, I watched this project fail last time, along with everyone else. I am attempting in my own small way ti try and help you avoid the same public mistakes - the single biggest mistake being; the total lack of any real information; "found some stuff, thought about selling it to you, somehow,maybe". It was vagaries and hypotheticals that was the single biggest mistake of the whole thing, ie "working on stuff". I am not being negative, or hoping the project fails, I am just being realistic. This is the only aspect of SP that interests me; I want this thing to succeed, purely selfishly, but the art historian in me recognises the potential for the legacy of the band - however, I can't gush "positively" at everything - because in all honesty, my problem is, I just don't know what the thing actually is.

[Sophie]

Just to take the pressure off a little and have some fun while everything gets sorted ok! :D/>

orchidaii, on 24 April 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

You're impossible.

[WayneArnold]

I, for one, am ecstatic with the plans so far. I can practically hear the first release already.

[orchidaii]

Ok, I understand where you are coming from/how you see things now.
Perhaps what I should of said is that we can't be 100% clear/transparent until we have something concrete. When the time is right, we will.

You said it yourself Drevpile - to NOT announce any products until we had 100% approval of release and actual costs from Billy.
So we're at that stage - negotiating with Billy. It's us that have to be the salespersons to Billy (as he stated in the interview). We're really not being "secretive" on purpose - it's to prevent massive backlash if we don't follow through on an announcement. We want to avoid not being able to follow through so that is why we're being diligent.

Also on the data collection - what is it that you want to know exactly? We collected quantitative and qualitative data from the sources we pointed out in the initial announcement. The spreadsheets were created based on knowledge that I acquired in a few research methods/stats courses that I took in university. We accounted for margins of error such as fans making the same request in 2 separate sources.

[ShamanO]

I can understand where Drev is coming from.

If this was something talked about before the announcement from Billy on Monte's show, I would hope that work was being done before the announcement to get this ball rolling so a release does come out sooner rather than later.

thx for the video Sophie. I'm gonna have to listen out of not hearing for a while.

[savethetiger]

orchidaii, on 24 April 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

So we're at that stage - negotiating with Billy. It's us that have to be the salespersons to Billy (as he stated in the interview). We're really not being "secretive" on purpose - it's to prevent massive backlash if we don't follow through on an announcement.

In all honesty, this answer is actually enough for me right now. It's not ideal, but it's enough. I'm not sure why this was so hard to pry out? As far as we knew you were still weeks away from even coming close to being able to present something. At least we can sense a bit of forward momentum now, not related to the new forum of course.

[ShamanO]

orchidaii, on 24 April 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

Ok, I understand where you are coming from/how you see things now.
Perhaps what I should of said is that we can't be 100% clear/transparent until we have something concrete. When the time is right, we will.

You said it yourself Drevpile - to NOT announce any products until we had 100% approval of release and actual costs from Billy.
So we're at that stage - negotiating with Billy. It's us that have to be the salespersons to Billy (as he stated in the interview). We're really not being "secretive" on purpose - it's to prevent massive backlash if we don't follow through on an announcement. We want to avoid not being able to follow through so that is why we're being diligent.

Also on the data collection - what is it that you want to know exactly? We collected quantitative and qualitative data from the sources we pointed out in the initial announcement. The spreadsheets were created based on knowledge that I acquired in a few research methods/stats courses that I took in university. We accounted for margins of error such as fans making the same request in 2 separate sources.

ahhh but you could always hype up the suggestions that you have gave to Billy to get yet another look at people's responses

[TheLucky13]

ShamanO, on 24 April 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

ahhh but you could always hype up the suggestions that you have gave to Billy to get yet another look at people's responses

We're not going to hype stuff up & we're not going to play with people's emotions.
The initial requests were based on past and current data. There is no point on announcing anything until we're past the negotiation stages with Billy.

savethetiger, on 24 April 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

In all honesty, this answer is actually enough for me right now. It's not ideal, but it's enough. I'm not sure why this was so hard to pry out? As far as we knew you were still weeks away from even coming close to being able to present something. At least we can sense a bit of forward momentum now, not related to the new forum of course.

About the forum, at least 10 people requested one to be created. Only the Lucky 13 team will be able to create topics so the discussions can stay focused. We will probably launch it once we have more concrete plans for the first release.

[ShamanO]

but at least people would be aware that it's been broken down between this, this, or this and it's now in Billy hands for deciding.

:shrug:/> I'll let you do your job and I'll just WAIT for something to be released for purchase someday.

[Drevpile]

I did not say don't consult the fans on the what the product is, before you took it forward. That's bonkers. I said, don't ask hypothetical questions about a hypothetical product...

As for the stats , please release .

[Drevpile]

TheLucky13, on 24 April 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

About the forum, at least 10 people requested one to be created.

Not being funny but empirical evidence shows that more than 10 people request clarity over a forum...

This post has been edited by Drevpile: 24 April 2012 - 10:17 AM

[MonteLDS]

ShamanO, on 24 April 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

but at least people would be aware that it's been broken down between this, this, or this and it's now in Billy hands for deciding.

:shrug:/> I'll let you do your job and I'll just WAIT for something to be released for purchase someday.

ya and if Billy doesn't agree with the idea this board goes crazy..

[ShamanO]

:lol:/>

then I guess this would mean you would have to be wise about what exactly you sent off to him to choose from to make it difficult for him to choose amongst however many to be viewed by him :p/>

This post has been edited by ShamanO: 24 April 2012 - 10:23 AM