[vescret]

i agree but what about As Rome Burns? people didnt enjoy that song?

[delvis]

I just received a replacement copy of this on LP from Amazon.ca. Apparently they re-pressed it after the distortion reports of the first press.
I haven't listened yet, so I have no idea if it's any better. I hope so.
Anyone else know about this? Amazon sent it to my for free. I have to return the old copy, but whatever.
Hope it's an improvement.
D

[ryan8765]

delvis, on 10 August 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

I just received a replacement copy of this on LP from Amazon.ca. Apparently they re-pressed it after the distortion reports of the first press.
I haven't listened yet, so I have no idea if it's any better. I hope so.
Anyone else know about this? Amazon sent it to my for free. I have to return the old copy, but whatever.
Hope it's an improvement.
D

Is there anything noticeable that would differentiate the two copies you have? Maybe a different catalog number or something?

[delvis]

ryan8765, on 10 August 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

Is there anything noticeable that would differentiate the two copies you have? Maybe a different catalog number or something?

Nope, it's all the same. I have no idea why this shit happens. I now have two copies, exactly the same cat #'s as well as sound issues.

WTF is going on? Records are turning from a true sounding media form to a cash grab. Nonsense.

[pyrocus]

The Celestials is so fucking great; every time I listen to it, it feels like it could've been a Mellon Collie outtake. It has that Mellon Collie guitar tone/fuzz and the wonderful/heavy use of the mellotron, like on Mellon Collie.

[MrBrown]

Hi,

28 year old Pumpkin fan from Norway, here. I’ve been a fan of the band since around the time Adore was released. Adore was the album that got me into the Pumpkins. I remember I used to head down to the record store every day after school for several weeks to listen to it in the store. Each listen would unearth new favourites. Eventually the record store lady would just have the album and the headphones lying ready on the counter when I got there. These days of course, you just download the record for free the day it comes out (or sooner, if it leaks), but my initiation into Pumpkins through Adore stands as my most powerful musical experience, and it’s still my favourite record.

I loved Machina too, enjoyed a lot of the Zwan songs, and also liked parts of the Future Embrace. Though from Machina onwards, I have often been frustrated at Corgan’s stubbornness and at times peculiar evaluation of his own work (such as omitting Real Love, Let me give the world to you, If there is a God, Cash Car Star and Dross from Machina, but including obscure songs like the Crying Tree of Mercury, Blue Skies Bring Tears and Glass and the Ghost Children). At the same time it’s one of the things I love about him: his unrelenting ambition to always go his own ways, to not repeat himself, and not being afraid to look foolish (and God knows he has on many occasions).

In some ways, Billy reminds me a bit of a fairy tale character. He is the tortured, grumpy hermit who chases all the children off his lawn and none of the villagers like him. But he is also capable of creating beautiful, heartbreaking music, and deep down he just wants to be loved. This same contrast appears in his music with the loud/quiet dynamics, and Billy’s voice which is both jarring and beautiful at the same time. Nobody would ever have sent Billy on to the next round if American Idol was around in the 80s and he auditioned, but then again, the same could be said if Bob Dylan had auditioned for Idol in the 60s.

Zeitgeist has been the only thing Corgan has made that I have not enjoyed one bit. I’m sure it was made with the best of intentions, but it sounds more like they tried to make the album they thought people wanted, and it ends up sounded like an inferior cover version of the Pumpkins. It’s loud and heavy, but to me guitar riffs and the heavy songs have never been what attracted me to them and makes them unique. For me it’s more the atmospheric, dreamy pop rock, their epic larger than life arrangements with songs about love and death.

I must confess I was slightly anxious on the day Oceania finally came out. I thought a lot of the Teargarden songs were good, but I was slightly underwhelmed when I heard the Oceania songs live for the first time. They were good… but not spectacular.

I guess I had much the same experience as almost everyone else on this board – the first 4, 5 listens I thought it was okay, then it started growing on me and I now in fact think it’s quite excellent. Like some other have pointed out, it doesn’t have a “Tonight, Tonight”, “Today” or “Stand inside your love”, but as an album it’s really solid, there are no weak tracks. It’s distinctively Pumpkins, yet sounds completely different from any of their other albums. The production and arrangements are beautiful, definitely the best since Adore. It’s more mellow than some of their previous albums, the lyrics aren’t so angry and angsty anymore, but I really can’t see why people would complain that the music is “too happy” – the songs are filled with melancholy, heart ache and loss. It sounds like a slightly more mature version of Pumpkins. And most importantly; it feels like Corgan means what he is singing about again. I would say it definitely holds its own compared to their older work. The new line up must surely take some of this credit. Everything post-Machina bares a bit too much sign of Corgan having had free reigns, when he seems to be better when he has strong collaborators around him.

“The Celestials” and “My Love is Winter” are two stand-out tracks. It’s like they’ve taken the best elements of Zwan and Adore and created something new. “The Chimera” is another highlight, like some lost gem off Siamese Dream, with the lyrics of the later Pumpkins era. “Oceania” is another amazing track, twisting and turning at every corner in classic Pumpkins manner. My only complaint is that the song reaches its climax halfway into the song, and the rest of the song sounds too much like a departure. Had it returned to its original themes and built up to one last chorus or something then it might have been better, but it’s still a fascinating song.

“One Diamond, one heart” (awful title, sorry) is, just like “That’s the my love is”, a cheesy love song. Pumpkins have always been bombastic and melodramatic and tackled big emotions/themes, and with that sometimes comes cheesiness (the same could be said for Muse), but cheesiness isn’t in itself a bad thing, as long as it’s the good kind of cheese. But whereas “That’s the way…” sounds cold, detached, soulless, Corgan singing on ODOH carries real emotion. It’s the good kind of cheese. I just wish the beautiful synth-solo could go on for longer!

“Wildflower” is a perfect album closer. When Corgan sings about being comforted, I find it genuinely moving. It’s a heard-wrenchingly honest moment, and a good showcase for the kind of self-reflective lyrics the album contains. The lyrics are romantic, poetic and often quite cryptic and mystical, very 60s in a way, and they fit the music well.

Maybe “Oceania” will appeal more to me than the likes of those who prefer “Siamese Dream” and early, grungy Pumpkins. “Oceania” has definitely got a bit of that gothic, arty vibe from the Adore/Machine days, and sounds at times like it could be the soundtrack of an 80s sci-fi film. I can see why Pumpkins isn’t the number one rock band in the world. They are arty, introspective and often plain weird, but in my book that’s a good thing. In order to reconquer their throne at the top of the music world, they would probably have to start making much more conventional music, so in a sense I’m happy to see them as eternal outsiders.

6 months ago I wasn’t too optimistic about the future of the bad, and found myself listening less to them than I used to. Perhaps the angsty, adolsescent lyrical content of their old albums no longer resonated as strongly, now that I was nearing 30? So I was overjoyed when Oceania restored my faith in the band, and that Corgan has grown up a bit lyrically, to make something that truly resonates for me at my current age.

For my money, Oceania represents a triumphant comeback, and I am very excited to see what the band will come up with in the future.

[rosenkreuzer]

excellent first post.
and welcome.

[sprules]

Looking back on Oceania nearly 2 months later [it feels like Oceania just came out yesterday], I have come to the conclusion that Pinwheels, The Celestials, Violet Rays, Inkless, Wildflower, and Quasar are my favorite tracks. Overall, the album is an 8/10 because of the diversion of genres between the tracks, great mixing, and brilliant guitar sounds and production. Cons are that Glissandra doesn't really fit in on the CD, and some songs ["Glissandra" and "My Love Is Winter" for me] don't really stick out in your mind.

In my standing of favorite SP albums, excluding B-Sides/rarities,[inspired by LostSoul] this is where Oceania stands:

Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
Siamese Dream
Oceania
Machina I/Machina II [I can't really decide which is better]
Adore
Zeitgeist
The rest of TBK

My favorite song from the CD would have to be Wildflower because of its standout melody and because it sounds like a perfect way to end an album. Great work SP! :cheers:/>

[rosenkreuzer]

you forgot gish :jackyl:/>

[chrisothoulos]

MrBrown, on 11 August 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

Hi,

28 year old Pumpkin fan from Norway, here. I've been a fan of the band since around the time Adore was released. Adore was the album that got me into the Pumpkins. I remember I used to head down to the record store every day after school for several weeks to listen to it in the store. Each listen would unearth new favourites. Eventually the record store lady would just have the album and the headphones lying ready on the counter when I got there. These days of course, you just download the record for free the day it comes out (or sooner, if it leaks), but my initiation into Pumpkins through Adore stands as my most powerful musical experience, and it's still my favourite record.

I loved Machina too, enjoyed a lot of the Zwan songs, and also liked parts of the Future Embrace. Though from Machina onwards, I have often been frustrated at Corgan's stubbornness and at times peculiar evaluation of his own work (such as omitting Real Love, Let me give the world to you, If there is a God, Cash Car Star and Dross from Machina, but including obscure songs like the Crying Tree of Mercury, Blue Skies Bring Tears and Glass and the Ghost Children). At the same time it's one of the things I love about him: his unrelenting ambition to always go his own ways, to not repeat himself, and not being afraid to look foolish (and God knows he has on many occasions).

In some ways, Billy reminds me a bit of a fairy tale character. He is the tortured, grumpy hermit who chases all the children off his lawn and none of the villagers like him. But he is also capable of creating beautiful, heartbreaking music, and deep down he just wants to be loved. This same contrast appears in his music with the loud/quiet dynamics, and Billy's voice which is both jarring and beautiful at the same time. Nobody would ever have sent Billy on to the next round if American Idol was around in the 80s and he auditioned, but then again, the same could be said if Bob Dylan had auditioned for Idol in the 60s.

Zeitgeist has been the only thing Corgan has made that I have not enjoyed one bit. I'm sure it was made with the best of intentions, but it sounds more like they tried to make the album they thought people wanted, and it ends up sounded like an inferior cover version of the Pumpkins. It's loud and heavy, but to me guitar riffs and the heavy songs have never been what attracted me to them and makes them unique. For me it's more the atmospheric, dreamy pop rock, their epic larger than life arrangements with songs about love and death.

I must confess I was slightly anxious on the day Oceania finally came out. I thought a lot of the Teargarden songs were good, but I was slightly underwhelmed when I heard the Oceania songs live for the first time. They were good… but not spectacular.

I guess I had much the same experience as almost everyone else on this board – the first 4, 5 listens I thought it was okay, then it started growing on me and I now in fact think it's quite excellent. Like some other have pointed out, it doesn't have a "Tonight, Tonight", "Today" or "Stand inside your love", but as an album it's really solid, there are no weak tracks. It's distinctively Pumpkins, yet sounds completely different from any of their other albums. The production and arrangements are beautiful, definitely the best since Adore. It's more mellow than some of their previous albums, the lyrics aren't so angry and angsty anymore, but I really can't see why people would complain that the music is "too happy" – the songs are filled with melancholy, heart ache and loss. It sounds like a slightly more mature version of Pumpkins. And most importantly; it feels like Corgan means what he is singing about again. I would say it definitely holds its own compared to their older work. The new line up must surely take some of this credit. Everything post-Machina bares a bit too much sign of Corgan having had free reigns, when he seems to be better when he has strong collaborators around him.

"The Celestials" and "My Love is Winter" are two stand-out tracks. It's like they've taken the best elements of Zwan and Adore and created something new. "The Chimera" is another highlight, like some lost gem off Siamese Dream, with the lyrics of the later Pumpkins era. "Oceania" is another amazing track, twisting and turning at every corner in classic Pumpkins manner. My only complaint is that the song reaches its climax halfway into the song, and the rest of the song sounds too much like a departure. Had it returned to its original themes and built up to one last chorus or something then it might have been better, but it's still a fascinating song.

"One Diamond, one heart" (awful title, sorry) is, just like "That's the my love is", a cheesy love song. Pumpkins have always been bombastic and melodramatic and tackled big emotions/themes, and with that sometimes comes cheesiness (the same could be said for Muse), but cheesiness isn't in itself a bad thing, as long as it's the good kind of cheese. But whereas "That's the way…" sounds cold, detached, soulless, Corgan singing on ODOH carries real emotion. It's the good kind of cheese. I just wish the beautiful synth-solo could go on for longer!

"Wildflower" is a perfect album closer. When Corgan sings about being comforted, I find it genuinely moving. It's a heard-wrenchingly honest moment, and a good showcase for the kind of self-reflective lyrics the album contains. The lyrics are romantic, poetic and often quite cryptic and mystical, very 60s in a way, and they fit the music well.

Maybe "Oceania" will appeal more to me than the likes of those who prefer "Siamese Dream" and early, grungy Pumpkins. "Oceania" has definitely got a bit of that gothic, arty vibe from the Adore/Machine days, and sounds at times like it could be the soundtrack of an 80s sci-fi film. I can see why Pumpkins isn't the number one rock band in the world. They are arty, introspective and often plain weird, but in my book that's a good thing. In order to reconquer their throne at the top of the music world, they would probably have to start making much more conventional music, so in a sense I'm happy to see them as eternal outsiders.

6 months ago I wasn't too optimistic about the future of the bad, and found myself listening less to them than I used to. Perhaps the angsty, adolsescent lyrical content of their old albums no longer resonated as strongly, now that I was nearing 30? So I was overjoyed when Oceania restored my faith in the band, and that Corgan has grown up a bit lyrically, to make something that truly resonates for me at my current age.

For my money, Oceania represents a triumphant comeback, and I am very excited to see what the band will come up with in the future.

Pretty good review of the band recently. Oceania still sounds fresh after two months of repeated listens.. I just cannot get sick of it.
I too seem to be more into the melodic, atmospheric pumpkin sound these days.. The only song I skip on the new album is "Quasar", the only song that has not resonated with me. But the rest of the album is so freakin amazing. I usually start the album with Panopticon.
I hope they release new music quicker because I am super excited to hear more music from Billy, Jeff, Nicole and Mike.

[MrBrown]

chrisothoulos, on 13 August 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

Pretty good review of the band recently. Oceania still sounds fresh after two months of repeated listens.. I just cannot get sick of it.
I too seem to be more into the melodic, atmospheric pumpkin sound these days.. The only song I skip on the new album is "Quasar", the only song that has not resonated with me. But the rest of the album is so freakin amazing. I usually start the album with Panopticon.
I hope they release new music quicker because I am super excited to hear more music from Billy, Jeff, Nicole and Mike.

Cheers. I agree with you on "Quasar", it's the one song on the album that doesn't quite blend in with the the rest of the material. The first few times I heard it I felt that it veered dangerously close to that most dreadful of all Pumpkins' song types - the repetetive, heavy song with inane lyrics (yes, Astral Planes and G.L.O.W., I'm looking at you). Although it's probably my least favourite song on the record, I now think it's kinda fun and the lyrics are certainly very unique.

One of my favourite moment on the album appears 2:20 into The Celestials, when the crunching guitar comes in and Billy sings "I'm gonna find you" - such an epically romantic, classic Pumpkin moment

[pyrocus]

I don't see how anyone can skip over Quasar; those drums are fantastic. I also am very fond of the lyrics ("please allow me to say hello to you," etc.) It's the perfect re-introduction to the Pumpkins.

[CelestialBeing]

Every song in this album is what makes Oceania that much more special.
(its all connected in a way) anyone noticed it?

Quasar is a great opener. God is a perfect word to start anything with,
and Wildflower as Bily says it with his last breath at the end of the song
is a perfect closer.

Fab-album.
(eSPecially for those of great faith and love)

[MoonPI]

It is definitely a Fab-album...It is so beautiful ♥ It is by far my favorite SP album..I really hear the emotion in Billy's voice on this album, especially in Violet Rays...

I have been listening to it so much, and it just gets better each time ♥

[MoonPI]

How did I not see this thread before?? :scatch:/>

I confess, I did not listen to any leaked songs from Oceania...someone even offered to send me a link to them...and I held out :)/>

I went to Target on the morning of it's release and as soon as I got into the car, I opened it up and popped it into the CD player ...

my first impression was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

that day I tried to listen some more, but company came and I couldn't give it the proper attention :(/>

so the following day, I listened to it again, I could hear some familiar Pumpkins sounds in it (just a lil) just kept listening over and over...I can truthfully say...I GOT THE CHILLS! seriously <3/>
I love the Pumpkins music so much and though some of the earlier Albums are GREAT, and hold a special place in my heart.. for me, NONE of them can hold a candle to Oceania..it has become my favorite SP album..and I can't wait to hear it live :)/>

I think it is just BEAUTIFUL..I hear emotion in Billy's voice and feel exactly what he is selling...in other words, I believe in his art, you can't just make up music like that and not feel it...that is a sign of a TRUE artist...

as far as what song would I play before bed?? Pinwheels or Violet Rays...((♥))

The album as a WHOLE is BEAUTIFUL and I will defend it til the end like I defend my belief in God :)/>

oh and NO other ALBUM I have ever listened to by the Pumpkins or anyone else has EVER given me the CHILLS..

with that said..

THANK YOU SMASHING PUMPKINS <3/> (you know your not dead)

[brettwallis]

CoolAsIceCream, on 06 August 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

you're a little late.

i'm already torn.

I feel it impossible to compare it to another album. I love every album they have made, but this is one of my favorites for sure..being so early, and that I haven't seen the live show yet, who knows if I will put it in the historical greatness of Mellon Collie, or Gish....I love it though!!!!!!!

[CelestialBeing]

Yea, I've even held out of going to a concert until I got the full Oceania experience.

Waiting is the hardest part. I hope they come down here pronto.

I've seen glimpses of youtube videos only because I want to hear what the songs sound like live
and they sound A+mazing. (even if they were recorded poorly, the greatness bleeds through)

No surprises with SP because
You can always expect the unexpected.

[FLSPNUT]

CoolAsIceCream, on 06 August 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

hey, if you're ever bored one day, i've got a great idea for you: why don't you make another thread about oceania?

And if you are ever bored one day CAIC, visit a thread you already obviously have seen made by someone else, then post in said thread because you were bored. You obviously have way too much time on your hands and are bored yourself. Let people post as they please in peace.

[MoonPI]

I have expectations....I EXPECT TO GET MY MIND BLOWN!:confettistars:/> ( I even expect it to be a better show than the Jack White one I just saw...umm I know it will be)

Good things come to those that wait :yes:/>

[M9R]

FLSPNUT, on 15 August 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

And if you are ever bored one day CAIC, visit a thread you already obviously have seen made by someone else, then post in said thread because you were bored. You obviously have way too much time on your hands and are bored yourself. Let people post as they please in peace.

How much do I owe you :)/>

MoonPI, on 15 August 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

Good things come to those that wait :yes:/>

absolutely.

[chemicalbehavior]

MoonPI, on 14 August 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

It is definitely a Fab-album...It is so beautiful ♥ It is by far my favorite SP album..I really hear the emotion in Billy's voice on this album, especially in Violet Rays...

I have been listening to it so much, and it just gets better each time ♥

Idk, the album has really faded for me. I haven't listened to it in about a month or so and haven't any desire to. I was looking forward to it coming out but after about a week or so of its release the album wasn't as good to me as it was when I first streamed it online.

There are a lot of good songs on the album ("Panopticon", "Pale Horse", "The Celestials"), but I just don't feel it's really worth its weight so to speak. What mainly disappoints me about the album is that it's a major step backwards musically, which I know is one of the main reasons why so many people here like it so much.

[ST2012]

MoonPI, on 15 August 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

I have expectations....I EXPECT TO GET MY MIND BLOWN!:confettistars:/> ( I even expect it to be a better show than the Jack White one I just saw...umm I know it will be)

Good things come to those that wait :yes:/>

I really wish Jack White would swing through Houston. Oceania and Blunderbuss are two of the best albums I've bought in a LONG time. I'm pretty confident that SP will come through Texas sometime this year but I don't know about Jack. The YouTube live vids just aren't cutting it for me...

[chrisothoulos]

chemicalbehavior, on 17 August 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

Idk, the album has really faded for me. I haven't listened to it in about a month or so and haven't any desire to. I was looking forward to it coming out but after about a week or so of its release the album wasn't as good to me as it was when I first streamed it online.

There are a lot of good songs on the album ("Panopticon", "Pale Horse", "The Celestials"), but I just don't feel it's really worth its weight so to speak. What mainly disappoints me about the album is that it's a major step backwards musically, which I know is one of the main reasons why so many people here like it so much.

The album has no misses for me....well maybe Quasar, never fell in love with this song so to speak but its not terrible by any means... At some point I have been into every other song a lot. Violet Rays has been my favorite for a while, but Panopticon and My Love Is Winter have really grown on me... didnt really dig them at first
I am really happy for this album and cannot wait for the next set of tunes

[RottingApples]

chemicalbehavior, on 17 August 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

There are a lot of good songs on the album ("Panopticon", "Pale Horse", "The Celestials"), but I just don't feel it's really worth its weight so to speak. What mainly disappoints me about the album is that it's a major step backwards musically, which I know is one of the main reasons why so many people here like it so much.

If "moving forward" gives us Teargarden, then I'll gladly take a step backwards any day of the week. The thing is, what Oceania sounds like most to me is that for the first time in more than 10 years Corgan just made music without pushing it or forcing something different. The biggest problem with most of the stuff he's released since Mellon Collie/ Adore is that rather than write and compose songs and let them come out naturally, he's forced it to go x, y, or z direction in the name of "progress", and it shows negatively each time as coming off too forced. Machina was a forced "back to rock", Zwan was a forced "can't sound like SP", Future Embrace was a forced "really can't sound like SP or Zwan", Zeitgeist was a forced "back to rock, mach II", and the entire concept of Teargarden was forced - can't be an album, can't sound like the past, spending too much time and overproducing each individual song. Oceania sounds like he wrote the songs, played them with the band, and they just recorded them - just as it was Gish through Mellon Collie. Adore was, I suppose, a somewhat natural progression, but even then he was forcing it away from "the grandiose, the bigness" as he himself put it. I'd say this is also why so much of the non-album material (esp. the acoustic stuff) from the last 12 or so years has been superior - because it wasn't fucked with in the name of "progress". When Corgan gets out of the way of his own songs and just lets them happen, the results tend to be better than any alternative we've seen.

[Digory]

not a bad album. it feels a little incomplete to me though. maybe i think it could benefit from more musical diversity.

[chemicalbehavior]

RottingApples, on 18 August 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

If "moving forward" gives us Teargarden, then I'll gladly take a step backwards any day of the week. The thing is, what Oceania sounds like most to me is that for the first time in more than 10 years Corgan just made music without pushing it or forcing something different. The biggest problem with most of the stuff he's released since Mellon Collie/ Adore is that rather than write and compose songs and let them come out naturally, he's forced it to go x, y, or z direction in the name of "progress", and it shows negatively each time as coming off too forced. Machina was a forced "back to rock", Zwan was a forced "can't sound like SP", Future Embrace was a forced "really can't sound like SP or Zwan", Zeitgeist was a forced "back to rock, mach II", and the entire concept of Teargarden was forced - can't be an album, can't sound like the past, spending too much time and overproducing each individual song. Oceania sounds like he wrote the songs, played them with the band, and they just recorded them - just as it was Gish through Mellon Collie. Adore was, I suppose, a somewhat natural progression, but even then he was forcing it away from "the grandiose, the bigness" as he himself put it. I'd say this is also why so much of the non-album material (esp. the acoustic stuff) from the last 12 or so years has been superior - because it wasn't fucked with in the name of "progress". When Corgan gets out of the way of his own songs and just lets them happen, the results tend to be better than any alternative we've seen.

That's your opinion and I respect that for what it is, but Billy's best material (Adore through Zeitgeist) comes when he challenges himself self as a writer (or as you say, forces himself) and tries to go to new territory. What I mainly hear on Oceania is Billy staying in a comfort zone and not challenging himself. It's almost as if he's giving in to what diehards want in SP mark II, which is symbolic in the kind of band he surrounded himself with.

It's not that I think that's the worst thing in the world, but with Oceania it's almost as if Billy is saying "Ok, I give up trying to be creative. Here's Siamese Dream Part II, or Mellon Collie Part II" when the material could have been so much better like when he challenged himself with Adore, Machina or Zeitgeist.

Mind you, I still think Oceania is far superior to Gish, Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie, but it's inferior to Adore, Machina and Zeitgeist.

[LostSoul]

chemicalbehavior, on 18 August 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

It's not that I think that's the worst thing in the world, but with Oceania it's almost as if Billy is saying "Ok, I give up trying to be creative. Here's Siamese Dream Part II, or Mellon Collie Part II"

Really? Tell me where the fuck in this album I can locate those. Quasar and Inkless are clearly SD inspired, but the rest of this record sounds like the freshest thing he has done in 12 years. To me, it sounds like a culmination of everything he has attempted since 1991, with a new layer on top. Replicating a specific sound all the way through an album would be unforgivable, but what is so wrong with mixing and applying everything he's learned through the years to a record?

Oceania is a return to form, but I respect it for being more than that. It is a step forward, with a fresh mindset, and a nod to the past. To me, that is the most respectable thing an artist can do. Billy & the band obviously put their all in this record, and Billy poured his heart into the lyrics & vocals for the first time since 2000 (or 2005 depending on who you ask). For him to finally ignore his preconceived barriers and push forward, to allow collaborations from his band in the studio again, to accept criticism. That is progress. For him to not give a fuck about sales and only ask for honest opinions on the music, and just let the pressure evaporate. Put his best foot forward, listen to his heart, embrace the past/present/future and actually let people assist him.

It is what I've been waiting for him to do since 2007. Zwan and TFE had their merits, but Zeitgeist & Teargarden were rock bottom. Horrid albums with few glimmers of hope, and wasted potential.

Case & point, Oceania has barely left my CD player since release day. It is scratched as fuck, close to skipping, and I need a new one already. Zeitgeist? I played it for a day. Maybe two. Just due to excitement of a new album. Teargarden got various plays as the tracks accumulated, and maybe four plays after all the tracks to that point were released. The only two SP records I play as much as Oceania are SD & MCIS. Adore, though it IS my second favorite SP record, is hardly an every day listen and is not a cruising CD by any means.

All the people I've played it for love it. My buddy was carpooling with me this week, and I put Oceania on. Got through My Love Is Winter. He seemed uninterested, so I changed the CD. He glares at me, and says, "Why did you turn it off? That was mad soothing..." :rofl:/>

[MoonPI]

NO taking a step back for me...I "feel" Billy's music...I UNDERSTAND the "progression" in it...

[crepe]

Zetgeist better than SD and MCIS.....


:shocked:/>

[chemicalbehavior]

LostSoul, on 18 August 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Really? Tell me where the fuck in this album I can locate those. Quasar and Inkless are clearly SD inspired...

I love how you ask me a question, with a tone as if I'm out of my mind for making a statement, just to immediately answer the very question you asked me. :p/>

You go on in your post stating that Oceania is a "return to form". Yes, it fits in quite well with SD or MCIS and that's the exact reason why so many people on the board have been happy with the album. It's effectively SD Pt II or MCIS Pt II, and it's the safety and familiarity with what Billy's done on Oceania that's contributed to the CD barely leaving your CD player since release day.

Again, I'm not saying it's a bad album, it's just compared to what Billy was doing in the late 90s/early 2000s and Zeitgeist era this album is disappointing.

crepe, on 19 August 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

Zetgeist better than SD and MCIS.....

It's disappointing and puzzling on how people here can be so shallow when someone has an opinion that deviates from the norm. What makes it puzzling is that this is a board filled with late-20 somethings and 30-somethings. I could see it in a board filled with kids, but there's mostly adults here.

I guess some people just never grow up. :rolleyes:/>

[alan]

i've waited for ages to post what i think of the album. i wanted to listen to it loads which i have.

i'm disappointed. i thought it was better than it is at the start. the more i've listened to it the more it sounds - in pumpkins terms - boring. don't get me wrong. i'm not saying it's awful, it's better than a lot of other albums out there. but i've become used to a certain amount of daring in what billy does. i categorically do not hear daring in oceania. and that's disappointing.

i love the highlights; for me, quasar, the celestials and pale horse are more what i'd hoped for. pale horse is great. my love is winter (reminds me of real love) and glissandra (reminds me of sacred and profane) are ok. the rest.... very straight, not challenging, not new. boring. in fact, i threw a lot of older pumpkins stuff onto a playlist last week and the contrast with the new stuff was striking; unassuming songs like blissed and gone, soot and stars, the tale of dusty and pistol pete, slow dawn - there's nothing on oceania with remotely the soul of these songs, apart from maybe pale horse. it sounds like the spark is missing. it is truly the first time billy has sounded like a journeyman to me. the album reminds me of the cure's 4:13 dream which i thought was the same type of album... the band by numbers.

i've liked most of billy's music for the past twenty years, even - maybe especially - TFE and teargarden. i liked zwan. I always appreciated that he was pushing the envelope, and appreciated it even more that he was risking pissing his audience off by making something different. The only not so good point was zeitgeist, but i've loved everything else. i way prefer the teargarden songs to oceania, maybe that's why i like quasar so much, it has that teargarden flavour to it.

i'm going to stay hooked on the pumpkins. if i can i'll go see them. but i really really hope that billy feels like being more adventurous with his next project.

[MinaLoi]

I didn't listen to, or watch any of the lives examples of Oceania, and I liked it immediately.

Actually "liked" is an oversimplification of my first impression of the album :lol:/>

Fear to Tread, on 09 August 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

There's not a real obvious 'hit single' on Oceania...

I disagree w/ this. Glissandra as first single would do well on the radio, I think.

[CelestialBeing]

MoonPI, on 14 August 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

It is definitely a Fab-album...It is so beautiful ♥ It is by far my favorite SP album..I really hear the emotion in Billy's voice on this album, especially in Violet Rays...

I have been listening to it so much, and it just gets better each time ♥

thank you for finally letting me in.
(it makes a w♥rld of a differece)

chemicalbehavior, on 17 August 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

Idk, the album has really faded for me. I haven't listened to it in about a month or so and haven't any desire to. I was looking forward to it coming out but after about a week or so of its release the album wasn't as good to me as it was when I first streamed it online.

There are a lot of good songs on the album ("Panopticon", "Pale Horse", "The Celestials"), but I just don't feel it's really worth its weight so to speak. What mainly disappoints me about the album is that it's a major step backwards musically, which I know is one of the main reasons why so many people here like it so much.

The album has faded?
maybe because you treated it like a brand new toy.
(i dont listen to it as much as I use to)the cd melted lol
(I played it too much)
Once all the excitement is gone so is the enthusiasm.
(could the album have been better?) always. without a doubt. (it could have had more songs)
but to say Oceania is a step backwards musically
(you must be facing in the wrong diretion)

What people dont "get?" now will get later,
all the greats are ahead of their time.

[werideatdusk]

I'm appreciating the thoughtful discussion of this album's merits. I like that it doesn't provoke such a polarized response... seems like people are much more willing to really weigh out its strengths and weaknesses in a way they weren't willing to for Zeitgeist or Teargarden...

To me, the most important thing here is that this album is the debut of the new lineup. This is a statement that these four people can make music that respects the SP legacy while moves it at least incrementally forward. (I would disagree that this album is SP by the numbers... there are songs that really don't remind me of past SP like "Pinwheels", "Pale Horse", "Violet Rays", and "Wildflower")

The great thing is now, more than ever, the fan base and whatever segment of the public that still thinks about SP is "on-board" with the current group. Bill will do much better work when he thinks the audience is appreciating QUALITY again, which seems to be the case. The influx of positive energy has set the stage for really great future work.

And, OCEANIA itself is at least a "very good" album. It's got a lot going on and the lyrics are certainly his best since TFE (though some of the Zeit-era acoustic stuff has some good lyrics). I'm at a point where I'm actually listening to a lot less SP than I ever have, maybe just moving into a different stage in my life (REM is resonating btw), but I think Oceania will be something I'll enjoy listening to regularly for a long time, unlike Zeitgeist or Mary Star.

[MoonPI]

ST2012, on 17 August 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

I really wish Jack White would swing through Houston. Oceania and Blunderbuss are two of the best albums I've bought in a LONG time. I'm pretty confident that SP will come through Texas sometime this year but I don't know about Jack. The YouTube live vids just aren't cutting it for me...

Yes, they are in my opinion the best... I'm a little more partial to Oceania though ♥

I hope for you that Jack White does in fact make it to Texas...It was a great show...

[MoonPI]

alan, on 19 August 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

i've waited for ages to post what i think of the album. i wanted to listen to it loads which i have.

i'm disappointed. i thought it was better than it is at the start. the more i've listened to it the more it sounds - in pumpkins terms - boring. don't get me wrong. i'm not saying it's awful, it's better than a lot of other albums out there. but i've become used to a certain amount of daring in what billy does. i categorically do not hear daring in oceania. and that's disappointing.

i love the highlights; for me, quasar, the celestials and pale horse are more what i'd hoped for. pale horse is great. my love is winter (reminds me of real love) and glissandra (reminds me of sacred and profane) are ok. the rest.... very straight, not challenging, not new. boring. in fact, i threw a lot of older pumpkins stuff onto a playlist last week and the contrast with the new stuff was striking; unassuming songs like blissed and gone, soot and stars, the tale of dusty and pistol pete, slow dawn - there's nothing on oceania with remotely the soul of these songs, apart from maybe pale horse. it sounds like the spark is missing. it is truly the first time billy has sounded like a journeyman to me. the album reminds me of the cure's 4:13 dream which i thought was the same type of album... the band by numbers.

i've liked most of billy's music for the past twenty years, even - maybe especially - TFE and teargarden. i liked zwan. I always appreciated that he was pushing the envelope, and appreciated it even more that he was risking pissing his audience off by making something different. The only not so good point was zeitgeist, but i've loved everything else. i way prefer the teargarden songs to oceania, maybe that's why i like quasar so much, it has that teargarden flavour to it.

i'm going to stay hooked on the pumpkins. if i can i'll go see them. but i really really hope that billy feels like being more adventurous with his next project.

Boring??...Oceania only gets better the more I hear it ♥

But I am all for Billy being adventurous...whatever he does in the future...I will be right there with him...

CelestialBeing, on 20 August 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:

thank you for finally letting me in.
(it makes a w♥rld of a differece)

♥ (you've always been in)

CelestialBeing, on 20 August 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:

(i dont listen to it as much as I use to)the cd melted lol
(I played it too much)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...............................Is that what is going to happen to me?? (I sure hope not) for I play it ALL the time :)/>

♥

[xyu]

I purposely avoided listening to any tunes from Oceania until I got the vinyl. Glad I did. I sat down with a good set of headphones and dazed away. Initially, I wasn't really into Pulsar or Panopticon, but they're growing on me. To me, Pulsar is a throwback to the tones of Zeitgeist, only warmer. At first, I was really digging the musical vibe, but not so much the vocal melodies - they seemed rather tame, at times I even thought the word 'boring'. But I realized that I was being unfair in expecting the vocals to be as energetic as earlier recordings from 20 years before, plus maybe the content of the album allowed for the more laid-back melodies. I feel that it does. The album has a hybrid 80's/ 90's sound and feel that is quite distinctive. For the first couple of listens, the album started for me at The Celestials, but not anymore, the album feels like a whole now.

What really made my connection with this album was listening to it with my girlfriend the first night I had it. We were tired, so we cuddled on the bed listening to disc 2, with the fake candles glowing on the ledge above the bed. I was brought back to my teenage years, in the sense that listening to music was once again an experience for me. By the end of side B, we were asleep and woke up to the haunting repetitions of Wildflower - very cool. Pale Horse really struck a chord with my girlfriend. Hard for me to single out high points, maybe part of why I like this album so much. It continues to grow on me.

I wouldn't change a thing about Oceania.

[KingBelteshazzar]

CoolAsIceCream, on 06 August 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

you're a little late.

i'm already torn.

go see a gynecologist about that.

[RottingApples]

I suppose this might be a question for Monte to pass along, but I figure it's a worthwhile one: Is there an intention of professionally filming any of the shows from the tour and releasing a dvd afterwards? It seems like a worthwhile opportunity: the whole new album front to back, nice extra tracks, interesting stage visuals. Additionally, I'm having doubts I'd be able to make it to any of the shows so it'd be nice to have for those people who aren't able to go.

[gyang333]

RottingApples, on 25 August 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

I suppose this might be a question for Monte to pass along, but I figure it's a worthwhile one: Is there an intention of professionally filming any of the shows from the tour and releasing a dvd afterwards? It seems like a worthwhile opportunity: the whole new album front to back, nice extra tracks, interesting stage visuals. Additionally, I'm having doubts I'd be able to make it to any of the shows so it'd be nice to have for those people who aren't able to go.

I think they will be, if they already haven't. If you look at the tour announcement video that was posted, they showed some clips from the concerts down under and the quality looked top notch.

[CandyCaneBonfire]

Nicole is the best bassist the band has had. I'm so glad Ginger got pregnant. Nicole looks like a Pumpkins offspring.Although maybe that's just the whole Siamese Dream album cover story fucking with my head.

[frednirv632]

Nicole is awesome. Her contributions to Oceania elevate the album to a whole new level. In some cases, she makes an otherwise forgettable song interesting. Celestials and ODOH come to mind.

[JSapp]

Isn't Billy the best bassist the band has ever had??


I agree though. Nicole rocks

This post has been edited by JSapp: 27 August 2012 - 05:06 PM

[KingBelteshazzar]

:mellow:/>