[Simon]

http://arts.national...shing-pumpkins/
"Oceania is More Smashing Pumpkins Than Smashing Pumpkins"

Here's an interesting quote:
"“I have a theory about my hardcore fan base, which is that they hoped I would fail and have to go back to the original Smashing Pumpkins lineup,” Corgan says over the phone from Chicago, adding that a reunion is definitely not in the works. “I don’t see how it would work, and I keep saying it and people keep asking it, so I guess I’m a little confused because I’ve just made a really good new record. What’s more important: the reuniting of the original band or making a really good record?”"

[*zero*]

that's a bizarre theory. how well does he know us? i don't think anyone, certainly not in the fan community at least, expects the original lineup to return at this point. he's made a big enough point of distancing himself from james and d'arcy is just...not happening. although i personally think it's likely that billy will work with jimmy again in future.


that said, i think oceania, while not a bad record per se, is totally overhyped. it was the original lineup's personal dynamics that brought their music to life, and oceania feels kind of airless to me.

[Simon]

*zero*, on 20 June 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

that's a bizarre theory. how well does he know us? i don't think anyone, certainly not in the fan community at least, expects the original lineup to return at this point. he's made a big enough point of distancing himself from james and d'arcy is just...not happening. although i personally think it's likely that billy will work with jimmy again in future.


that said, i think oceania, while not a bad record per se, is totally overhyped. it was the original lineup's personal dynamics that brought their music to life, and oceania feels kind of airless to me.

Re: the theory, I think it's both right on and completely off.
Right on in that I think there are a lot of people within certain communities that would delight in seeing Billy crash and burn. I mean, there are some who have wanted to see this board crash since 2009, and its a fucking message board. Lol.
Completely off in that I think it's easy for Billy to make blanket statements that throw the fans that are devoted under the bus. Like this one, which doesn't really take into account the large portion of fans who really try to understand what Billy does with his music.

[mayday27]

Blanket statements are Rarely useful.

[monkeysnot]

*zero*, on 20 June 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

. it was the original lineup's personal dynamics that brought their music to life.

Not if Billy played all of it.

[*zero*]

Simon, on 20 June 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:

Right on in that I think there are a lot of people within certain communities that would delight in seeing Billy crash and burn. Completely off in that I think it's easy for Billy to make blanket statements that throw the fans that are devoted under the bus. Like this one, which doesn't really take into account the large portion of fans who really try to understand what Billy does with his music.

I have always felt that the majority of people in the music press would rather see Billy fail. I find it surprising that he continues to give sincere, insightful interviews to publications that often immediately turn their backs and make fun of him. If he wants to make a big, provocative statement about the music business, consumerism or music culture, he should write it down in one clear, comprehensive blog post or something rather than just winging it from interview to interview and making comments that can easily be misinterpreted (ie, pissing on Radiohead.)

I wish I agreed with your view that he has many sympathetic, understanding fans but I just don't see it. Whenever Billy says something edgy or sophisticated, which is pretty often, it usually goes over most people's heads. I've been on many SP boards in the last ten years and everything always gets taken to its dumbest level- like the Radiohead thing. I don't think there are many truly perceptive, high-minded fans out there who care about his "art" or try to see things from his perspective.

This post has been edited by *zero*: 20 June 2012 - 08:48 AM

[xyu]

*zero*, on 20 June 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

I have always felt that the majority of people in the music press would rather see Billy fail. I find it surprising that he continues to give sincere, insightful interviews to publications that often immediately turn their backs and make fun of him. If he wants to make a big, provocative statement about the music business, consumerism or music culture, he should write it down in one clear, comprehensive blog post or something rather than just winging it from interview to interview and making comments that can easily be misinterpreted (ie, pissing on Radiohead.)

I wish I agreed with your view that he has many sympathetic, understanding fans but I just don't see it. Whenever Billy says something edgy or sophisticated, which is pretty often, it usually goes over most people's heads. I've been on many SP boards in the last ten years and everything always gets taken to its dumbest level- like the Radiohead thing. I don't think there are many truly perceptive, high-minded fans out there who care about his "art" or try to see things from his perspective.

I hear what you're saying about the press wanting Billy to fail - but in the press's defense, that's the way it is. They get to create stars, and they get to destroy them, or so they think.

I would like to say that I am one of those few "sympathetic, understanding fans" who care about Billy's art. That's why I purposely haven't listened to anything from Oceania. When my vinyl arrives, I will sit down with a glass of beer and enjoy the ride. I've always appreciated how each album is noticeably different.

Regarding Billy Corgan's politics, I appreciate his mentality of hovering in the centre of issues, as he seemed to be doing on Alex Jones. Approaching issues with the belief that there are only two sides (left and right) is such a waste of a mind, in my opinion. Maybe it would help if we asked ourselves, "Well, if the left wing is saying this, and the right wing is saying that, then what is the head in the middle saying?" That may be where you can start to have your own independent thought, without bias, and analyze all the official dialogues and the lesser-known dialogues, and see how you can make sense of it all. I don't care about who is right or wrong - I care about people losing their critical thinking skills...and their appreciation of music as an art, of course. :cheers:/>

[the_farewell_party]

I have never seen any Pumpkins fan say anything that remotely sounded like they wish for Billy to fail.

It seems that a few fans are "backseat drivers", though, knowing exactly what artistic route for Billy to take to be culturally relevant again and regain the fame he had during the band's height. I may have been guilty of this a couple times.

But, despite that being naive and presumptuous, it's not malicious. They don't want to see Billy "crash and burn" or anything.

[*zero*]

^ i said i feel the music PRESS wants him to fail, not the fans.

[themadcaplaughs]

I love how Billy considers the "hardcore fanbase" to be what he reads on Netphoria.

[Simon]

themadcaplaughs, on 25 June 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

I love how Billy considers the "hardcore fanbase" to be what he reads on Netphoria.

I don't think its that simple. There's a section of fans that have crusaded for the last 10 years to vocalize their discontent with various BC projects. Look at Facebook, look at twitter, look at this board. Some might argue that it's because the music has not lived up to expected potential, which may or may not be fair criticism. The thing with Netphoria is that, individually, the people Ive met in person over the last 10 years are, aside from a few broken toys, genuinely nice people. Somehow, together, they seem to have nurtured this weird culture that Im not sure will ever turn around. It is what it is. But the thing that netphorians are good at is wiggling their way into most things and highlighting the ridiculous. There was even a guy yelling Freebird on the Oceania cruise. :whattodo:/>

[themadcaplaughs]

Quote

I don't think its that simple. There's a section of fans that have crusaded for the last 10 years to vocalize their discontent with various BC projects. Look at Facebook, look at twitter, look at this board. Some might argue that it's because the music has not lived up to expected potential, which may or may not be fair criticism. The thing with Netphoria is that, individually, the people Ive met in person over the last 10 years are, aside from a few broken toys, genuinely nice people. Somehow, together, they seem to have nurtured this weird culture that Im not sure will ever turn around. It is what it is. But the thing that netphorians are good at is wiggling their way into most things and highlighting the ridiculous. There was even a guy yelling Freebird on the Oceania cruise.

In a weird way, I consider Netphorians, despite their apparent insanity, to be the last true area of sanity in the SP community. The rough edge they do is just sort of a performance art thing. Either way, it is the reason I continue to post both here and at Netphoria.

[monkeysnot]

themadcaplaughs, on 25 June 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

In a weird way, I consider Netphorians, despite their apparent insanity, to be the last true area of sanity in the SP community. The rough edge they do is just sort of a performance art thing. Either way, it is the reason I continue to post both here and at Netphoria.

It's the worst place in the history of the Internet. Obviously I had some really bad experiences there, but it's done and over and here we are!

[*zero*]

Netphoria is one of the best forums on the internet.

But it will give your computer AIDS.

[indisposed]

As Pitchfork had stated in their review for TheFutureEmbrace, Billy's changed a few lives in his day with SP. Unfortunately, he's a victim of his own success. No matter how good his new material is, it'll always be up against the old classics. Great problem to have, imo.

He's also a victim of his mouth. While Billy sells a certain narrative about himself and the band in interviews, he's giving off an entirely different perception than the one he's trying to sell. People (on a whole) don't want to hear from him that his new album is great, and his new band is great, and he was a genius once and is a genius again; they want to feel like they're discovering it and him themselves, on their own terms.

The latter coupled with nostalgia/how good Siamese, Mellon Collie are, makes him and the band a tough nut to crack in the media.

[Parksey]

god he talks some serious shit

[frosty]

is he asking us or telling us? maybe he's saying that stuff so he can get feedback on it. listen billeh, we all know jeff is a good addition to the band. if you've got exciting musicians in your lineup like him, then our ears will perk up & listen.

[RottingApples]

themadcaplaughs, on 25 June 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

The rough edge they do is just sort of a performance art thing.

You'd think of anyone, Corgan would be able to 'appreciate' bad performance art.

[lucciola]

Netphoria separates the men from the boys and always has. It's not the last bastion of the hardcore though. I rarely visit and haven't posted in probably near ten years, but as far as I can see the hardcore that walked with Billy for so many years, that built the online community and effectively secured his legacy have long since left the building. The new hardcore forming now? God help him.

The press builds up and the press tears down. It's what they do; it's not alway a personal vendetta. Live by the media, die by the media.

RottingApples, on 25 June 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

You'd think of anyone, Corgan would be able to 'appreciate' bad performance art.

:lol:/>