I feel like i should be saying good lesson to you all...

for i learned a thing or two myself...

of life. Passion of what we are doing.

I understand better what you are saying.

That's curious cause I was saying that during years, we have to be fulfilled and happy ourself, to be able making others happy. I think I forgot to listen mySelf

Good lesson today Blackswan.

Hope passion for all of us.

you know i cherish and value our friendship...

oh martine...I mean i support whatever music he puts out, whether i feel his passion in it or not...if he feels it is right for him, I will back him on it!

but although i may disagree with what he may do, i would keep and open mind and stay behind his decision...if i did not agree to something i would voice my opinion, but would not turn my back on him...

that is what i mean by support...

and i too love you learning, growing...

is not the same than support all the person do, it seems to me Blackswan.

The person is different of his/her actions. It's in this way we may to be critic about the actions but eachone knows we are supporting for the person. We see the work globally. When I say it to you, we could say it is a critic. Cause I know your heart for many months now, cause we have developped a special relationship web based, my comment is not to critic you but to seek together to find a commun ground. It's like we are building our story. It we speak of critic,we could also interpret that as bashing and it's not really the best way to build a relationship.

If we rather name our comments like the engagement we have for eachother to find the best road for our friendship, we see both the reading differently.

slcpumpkinsfans, I heard the songs. It was clear in that but we feel it generally in the new songs. The old songs spoke of love but another kind (wrote king?) of love, something personal, with a lot of questionning, despair and betrayal, and desire.

The new songs speak also of love but of another kind, sense of community, but also in Rose March, from a desire of honesty in love, to see the other and oneself like we are and based the relationship, the emotion coming from the relationship being truthful. We could say it is inspiring!

The Rose March, from every place we look at it, we see something uplifting. We feel in that the community, of two of 100 people, we feel the engagement, we feel the desire to be known, oneself and the other, for eachother. We see also all the work to make it, there is lot of difficulties to find a way toward the other respecting oneself in the same time, projects, interests and values.


slow-poked and cross-eyed
pigeon-toed to the railroad ties
hump-backed and sugar shacked
shotgun wed to the poison of all that


inner spaced and pie-faced
you catch the moon i'll just stand here and run in place
shell-shocked and half-cocked
the universe is full of black holes and anniversary knots


I Love this song. It expresses Life in Love in Truth.

reads these things....

Don't misunderstand Billy, I have much love for you, and I believe in your mission, and your talent...I do believe you have a good heart and the best of intentions...and i will always support what you do....

much love to you...

I agree that if someone is totally into the music with their passion, their heart and soul...that people will feel it and get into it as well. Some of the best concerts I have been to have been the most emotional ones...the singer was into it, and everyone could feel it...and empathize with the message they were portraying...people had tears in their eyes from this "rock star" and their band on stage. But, it was in the air...in the atmosphere and everyone could "feel" it...if they were in tune.

However, I do feel that even artists desire and need feedback and constructive criticism. Sometimes, he may be trying to "get a feel" from the audience on how this "new material" is being received...in that way, getting feedback of his own. He wants to know if it's being taken well or not...or if people just want to hear the hits and/or b-sides.

Maybe this board can be a place for those that attend the shows and hear new music to leave that kind of feedback. That way he could focus on being in tune with himself and the music more on stage. But, I also feel that he wants to understand the people...the feeling that night when they are performing for these individuals. Perhaps on occasion he is trying too hard...I haven't seem them play enough on the tour for Zeitgeist to come to any conclusion or form any valid opinion about that.

Many times people's intentions are good...but the presentation could come across better. That can always be worked on. When things go right, they flow...and don't have to be forced. It's like a magic that just happens...but in order for that to happen certain conditions must all be in place and aligned correctly.

hehee i'm always chill....just my point of view is all...

Oh ladybeans i enjoy, respect and look forward to your input....I have nothing against you or others...
I just don't buy into some of those things i mentioned is all....but that is my thoughts, what is right for me, is different for others..please don't hate me, for i don't hate you..I am who i am...

I have LOVE for everyone, discussing and disagreeing does not make me dislike...actually i like it...It helps me learn things about myself...and i thank you for that...I will always be your friend and will never turn against you, I may disagree sometimes though

I still believe...

NO ONE IS GOD, NO ONE HAS ALL THE ANSWERS TO LIFE, AND YES WE ALL KNOW WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG

I know in some country's where they fight over land...these people are brainwashed, and in what you could call a cult like situation, run by the leaders of their country...


We all know, I mean we all have a conscience.. I have one, I am human, so i assume everyone else has one too...

to slcpumpkinfans...THANK YOU

ok now as far as Billy and his spirituality goes...If Billy is singing about the fans..."i will lay roses at your feet until you decide there is something great in you" He is saying he will keep giving us his message until we change??? But then why does he walk off the stage??? Why does he not forgive people like D'arcy, and James and others and try to work things out with them??? These two examples to me are someone who holds a grudge and turns their back...If he wants us to change, he needs to set the example...he needs to change too...also, I feel (just my opinion) He always looks so very UNHAPPY...I ask...If he is in such a better place, then why is he so mad all the time??? He was happier back in the early days of the Pumpkins! I feel he would have a better response if he put his emotions and feelings of spirituality into his songs and just sang about it without always trying to SEND EVERYONE A MESSAGE...Sometimes i get the impression that he is on this mission to change peoples lives, and wants fans to respond to him like some kind of leader or something...HE DOES NOT NEED TO BE THIS WAY! HE ALREADY CHANGED PEOPLES LIVES WITH HIS MUSIC...WITHOUT EVEN TRYING...JUST BY BEING HIM AND PUTTING HIS EMOTIONS ABOUT LIFE INTO HIS MUSIC...He does not need to go up on stage and try to change the audiences lives, he has lost the emotion and the passion in his music, because i feel he is sidetracked, he is trying too hard to reach the audience..If he can find his passion again, i mean focus on his feelings, and music, and not focus on the audience so much, he will get through to them...naurally...

when i look back at early footage, he hardly looked at the audience, he was totally into his music, now he seems to always be concerned with the audience...He should just get up on stage and play...if he is into it, they will get into it too!

just because he doesn't take drugs anymore, etc..should not change the music, just the content??? actually it might do some good if he put some songs out there about his past life experiences..yes i know this has been done, but i am sure he has more to share....this whole, I AM IN SUCH A BETTER PLACE NOW AND WE SHOULD ALL SEE THE LIGHT ATTITUDE IS NOT WORKING...people aren't buying it, i am not buying it...it has disrupted his talent and he is always bitter...that is not someone who's seen the light!

Do you think he feels that is not appropriate to this website, this kind of matter? Does he reserve it for other places?

I think at that time in his life, he was free of any bands where what he might have said about his personal life could have been interpreted as being the viewpoint of the band. Billy is often the mouthpiece of the band, although these days we are hearing from Jimmy a lot more. And, with the blogs, we are getting an opportunity to learn about and hear from each member. I feel that is a crucial part to us understanding them, their viewpoints, and where they are coming from. To understand someone, you must realize their trials and their successes...their ups and their downs. Billy knows we've stuck with them (SP) through all of the "highs and lows"...to hell and back, so to speak. But, this gives us a personal understanding and a better appreciation for him as a person. It helps us relate to him better and we can appreciate him both as an artist but also as a person of high intellect and one with a very pure soul and understanding heart. He is in a place where he wants to do well and help others do that. It took a lot for him to get to that place. Many people think that when they obtain that million, or the nice car, beautiful house, solid career, etc...that they will be happy. Billy's been there, and he now knows that what "the world" may deem as being successful doesn't really bring that happiness inside of us. I love the song "Muzzle." Media and our culture hypnotizes us, barrages us with these images of celebrities with nice "Cribs" and "glamorous" lifestyles. And our youth are taught that to be happy, successful, and loved and adored that they must grow up to be like these people. It's a fake image. It's a "puffed up in their pride" image...a very selfish look at me and what I have...and that I have it, I'm better than you mentality.

Now, it's great to have nice things and to work hard in life to obtain them...don't get me wrong. It's not that "money is the root of all evil." It's that the "love" of money...is the root of all evil. In other words, what are people willing to do to obtain their love for that materialism? Are they willing to break solemn covenants to become accepted and love amongst their peers? Are they willing to cheat and lie to the ones they love in order to obtain gain for themselves? Are they willing to spend more time at their career instead of with their family?

Billy is at a place where he can now come out and say it. He's with a band that is on the same level with him...unlike Zwan. Billy wanted to take Zwan to a higher level, but they weren't ready. They were content with being with Billy and all the fame they received from being next to him.

I don't necessarily feel that this site isn't appropriate for personal or spiritual discussions or posts from Billy. I feel he has posted some of that already in his blogs. And it amazes me with some of the articles and responses by individuals on this site with how many are on the "same wavelength" at the same time. I feel that's part of this consciousness that people have tuned into.

Black Swan--
I am VERY spiritual, so spiritual that I have had dreams that have come true, more than once...I don't expect anyone to believe me, I don't care if anyone believes me, I KNOW IT, so that is good enough for me...Point is, these so called WARRIOR OF LIGHT websites and so called proclaimed philosophers just don't FEEL right to me...I think those who bow down to people like this for guidance are just week in their own minds...

No one can change YOU but YOU...You can go to church and be told right from wrong, but in the end the decision to change ones life or path is ultimately their own...

I don't doubt that you are a "VERY spiritual" person at all. And, I do believe you about dreams coming true. I believe dreams can be prophetic in nature. They can often reveal future events. I do also believe that we can communicate with others in dreams...even loved ones on the other side. When we dream, we are on a different level and can be more receptive to certain information than when we are awake and have the conscious mind to deal with.

I am in total agreement with your statement where you say, "but in the end the decision to change ones life or path is ultimately their own..."

What's that saying about "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink"? I feel there are many people in any organized religion, denomination, religious formation, whatever it be...who attend church, but are comfortable with where they are and don't progress or change. They simply go through the motions.

Newton's law states that a body or object will remain at rest unless acted upon by a greater force. Sometimes, we need that greater force in our lives to help get the ball rolling to motivate us towards the change we need and desire. But, we have to let down our pride and be humble enough to accept that help. We often need that guiding light or shining star to lead us back onto the strait (like what a ship goes through) and narrow.

Billy mentions that he's had those "angels" come into his life at the time he needs it. I pray that we can all be someone's angel when they need the help and when God inspires us to help those in need. We are here to help each other make it home one day.

I know there are many people who are very spiritual who don't profess to be of any religion. God doesn't love them any less. And yes, there are those who seek only wealth...be it through what they proclaim as the true gospel or what not. Those people have no authority to act and preach in the name of God.

Back to Martine...

Joey Shanahan said Billy talked to God singing? Do lyrics are the way to express his spirituality to fans? What is spirituality? What is God?

That reminds me of a scripture:

For my soul delighteth in the song of the heart; yea, the song of the righteous is a prayer unto me, and it shall be answered with a blessing upon their heads.

I feel it's more than just lyrics...it's the way a song translates to you on a personal level within your heart and soul. It's the emotion it evokes from within. That's how a song can be expressed on different levels to different people depending upon how open the person is to receive it and on what level they currently are at in their life.

Billy may have written a song that has personal meaning to him, but the topic at hand can be interpreted by many people...and they relate to it on their own personal level. In that, I agree...Black Swan, there is beauty. That would be how the energy of all in attendance...the audience/listeners "share" this experience and contribute their own energy to this atmosphere...would be a good word for it.

If many people are on the same level of consciousness then it speaks to many at once all at the same time...and when that happens, it is truly amazing to behold. It's as if all are on the same harmonic tone...and it adds to the beauty.

Lyrics play a crucial part, though, as well.

Let's take a look at the lyrics to a mainstream song...I almost called it "popular"...because it could be considered that in today's age. It's definitely mainstream, though, compared with anything from the "American Gothic" EP. I'm not even gonna list the artist or song title, though I know who it is.

Touch my body
Put me on the floor
Wrestle me around
Play with me some more
Touch my body
Throw me on the bed
I just wanna make you feel
Like you never did.
Touch my body
Let me wrap my thighs
All around your waist
Just a little taste
Touch my body
Know you love my curves
Come on and give me what I deserve
And touch my body.

The song does have a catchy, up beat sound to it. And because of that, many people will continue to listen to it despite its overtly graphic nature about what it's really talking about. Play a happy song in a major key with some catchy loops, and you have a hit, right?

But, is this really inspiring music? No. Does it evoke within you an emotion to be a better person, or to help someone? Does it make you feel good inside? Or, does it just evoke a feeling of a sensual nature to give in to your body?

Compare that with lyrics from "The Rose March"

"I'll lay roses at your feet till you decide there is something great in you"

That sure inspires me more than "touch my body, put me on the floor" does.

I think Weezer kind of makes fun of the music industry in their new single "Pork and Beans" which you can hear streaming by going to their site http://www.weezer.com

They say
I need some Rogaine
To put in my hair
Work it out at the gym
To fit my underwear
Oakley makes the shades
That transform a tool
You'd hate
For the kids to think
That you lost your cool

I'mma do the things
That I wanna do
I ain't got a thing
To prove to you
I'll eat my candy
With the pork and beans
Excuse my manners
If I make a scene
I ain't gonna wear
The clothes that you like
I'm finally dandy
With the me inside
One look in the mirror
And I'm tickled pink
I don't give a hoot
About what you think

Everyone likes to dance
To a happy song
(Hey, hey)
With a catchy chorus and beat
So they can sing along
(Hey, hey)
Timbaland knows the way
To reach the top of the charts
Maybe if I work with him
I can perfect the art

I'mma do the things
That I wanna do
I ain't got a thing
To prove to you
I'll eat my candy
With the pork and beans
Excuse my manners
If I make a scene
I ain't gonna wear
The clothes that you like
I'm finally dandy
With the me inside
One look in the mirror
And I'm tickled pink
I don't give a hoot
About what you think

No I don't care
I don't care

I'mma do the things
That I wanna do
I ain't got a thing
To prove to you
I'll eat my candy
With the pork and beans
Excuse my manners
If I make a scene
I ain't gonna wear
The clothes that you like
I'm finally dandy
With the me inside
One look in the mirror
And I'm tickled pink
I don't give a hoot
About what you think
Totally different?

Be yourself! Don't look for that "projection" from those that don't matter. It's great to be honored amongst your peers...aka Hollywood, the music industry, etc. But, in the end...you know what really matters and whose projection really matters...and it's those that are on the same level as you.

Music that inspires us to become better or do good is praiseworthy and of good report. Music that evokes rage, anger, makes us want to go out and kill someone...hit someone, be violent, be "loose" with our morals and give in to our mortal, natural side that should never control us...but we should be in control of it...is not something that we should be listening to, honestly.

Many popular songs and music videos belittle women, turning them into sexual objects to fulfill our sexual desires and fantasies. After all, sex sells, right? Others play into our anger and hatred of "authority", our parents, the world, anger at God...etc. These come from a very dark place. Do we all feel these emotions at times? Yes...we all do. Rain falls on everyone...the same old rain...

But, that doesn't mean we should subject ourselves willingly to situations where we would be more prone to give into these carnal desires. Music can be a way that we can be in touch with God's love for us. And music that turns us away from God...well, it's turning us towards the devil...since that's the opposite of God.

Because music is so connected to our emotions and our souls, it often influences our decisions. To summarize, beautiful music helps us grow and progress this consciousness that we've been talking about. Dark music stunts that spiritual growth...it takes away the opportunity for us to use our sixth sense and grow together in a spiritual manner.

God has opened Billy's heart. And it shows. We can see it. Yeah, and I'm glad he's not afraid to talk about it publicly. Those who are willing to grow and help usher in this new level of consciousness will be right there with him.

It's selfish to think that your actions are yours alone. For you are not yours...you are the universe's. Your name is to be blessed or cursed for generations to come. "We are Starz...we are." We are to be people's guiding lights...be it for those whom we have influence over or are connected to in ways that may, at this time, be beyond our human mind's comprehension.

Many things do have to be felt in the heart. If we could prove everything intellectually or with science, we wouldn't need faith. For to know something is to not need faith anymore...for it is already known. Faith is hoping for things which are true (correct principles) which can't be seen. We must go forward with faith, not knowing the way before us...and God will lead us and guide us in the correct direction...and will open up doors to us and avenues which we may have previously thought not possible or even considered.

Life is like this. We try and plan it out and do our best. Then, we get put through the refiner's firer to remove the dross and impurities to help us become purer in heart and spirit. There is no fence sitting. We can't stand still or be complacent with who we are. If we aren't progressing, then we're regressing. Time isn't something we will always have. It comes and goes, and before you know it...we are saying to ourselves...I will start tomorrow...well, "Start today...yeah, Start today."

Who is to say that we weren't connected on a "spiritual" level before we were even born on this earth? Is it possible that part of our destiny was to help usher in this "new consciousness"...this new "spiritual awakening" to help cleanse the earth and people's hearts and minds for the preparation of the second coming of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ?

If God gives people talents, and then speaks to them to help others...and if Billy is a spiritual conduit through which God speaks...be it through his musical abilities...songs, lyrics...and what not, who is to say that this isn't part of Billy's mission here on earth? Is it possible that many of us were connected to Billy before this life? I've often wondered if it wasn't like, "Hey Billy...I know life down there's going to be rough...but remember, you have this talent of Music....and once you "relearn" it on earth...God will use you and your talent to help others progress and to remember Him and the plan He has for us...to one day all return as one big happy family...a collective consciousness...but this time to work towards becoming perfected beings. who have been there on an imperfect earth with imperfect people and imperfect lives, imperfect bodies, and to know what it's like through first hand experience to have hard times and happy times." Who is to say that Billy isn't...in a way...a "messenger of God"...like Glass? If he can help others make good choices in their life through his music...then he is serving God. Billy has helped people in so many different ways because people could relate to his music when they were sad or depressed or having rough times. They could relate to how he has felt.

Now, is the time to say...let's get over it...and quit the self pity and wallowing around. I know I've been through the whole "pissed off at the world" phase myself. But, now is a time where we can all work together to help people appreciate the beauty of this earth and world all around us...and inside each and every one of us. There will be those who choose not to follow, but that's their choice. Those ready to progress and move on...will do so willingly and with loving hearts. But, those who choose not can't say when the end arrives that they were never given a chance. People are on different levels and at different times of their lives. Let us understand that as we post on this board and not judge people just because they may be at a different level in their life. Everyone's opinion or point of view matters. Perception is reality to that person. People may perceive what we say differently...so let's choose our words kindly.

And if this message seemed kind of preachy...I just want to let you know that I need to apply it to myself as well. Sometimes this really helps me to discover what's important to me and my life as well.

P.S. About a week ago, on my play list, "Stumbleine" and "The Rose March" ended up right next to each other. Ever heard those back to back? Very interesting to compare/contrast. Like, listen to the picking style...listen to the pitch...the lyrics, etc. He plays "The Rose March" with a capo...so it results in a higher pitch...and "The Rose March" is a more upbeat, positive...song...where the same can't be said about "Stumbleine". You should give it a shot...it's well worth the time spent.